Brandon Lloyd is not a bust!

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by wbecker999

I remember that game .That was Lloyds fault all the way. Nobybody's perfect
I'll cut him some slack for not making the catch , But own up to your mistakes.

Apparently Lloyd doesn't. As stated by ThatGuy, this is not new info. Perhaps this is why people were skeptical about your "not a bust" opinion from the beginning. Maybe next time before you go jumping down people's throats for disagreeing with you, you'll cut em some slack before calling them out.

[wbecker999]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Apparently Lloyd doesn't. As stated by ThatGuy, this is not new info. Perhaps this is why people were skeptical about your "not a bust" opinion from the beginning. Maybe next time before you go jumping down people's throats for disagreeing with you, you'll cut em some slack before calling them out.

Hey -When I jumped down peoples throats
The only rebuttal I was getting was along the lines of
"one catch doesn't define a career" witch was not implied in my message anyway.
Can anyone see how that was frustrating?

I apologize for offending anyone
I was trying to raise the level of this debate.

As for the topic it got peoples attention and turned out to have some pretty good arguments on each side.

[wbecker999]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Apparently Lloyd doesn't. As stated by ThatGuy, this is not new info. Perhaps this is why people were skeptical about your "not a bust" opinion from the beginning. Maybe next time before you go jumping down people's throats for disagreeing with you, you'll cut em some slack before calling them out.

When I jumped down peoples throats
The only rebuttal I was getting was along the lines of
"one catch doesn't define a career" witch was not implied in my message anyway.
Can anyone see how that was frustrating?

I apologize for offending anyone
I was trying to raise the level of this debate.

As for the topic it got peoples attention and turned out to have some pretty good arguments on each side.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by wbecker999

When I jumped down peoples throats
The only rebuttal I was getting was along the lines of
"one catch doesn't define a career" witch was not implied in my message anyway.
Can anyone see how that was frustrating?

I apologize for offending anyone
I was trying to raise the level of this debate.

As for the topic it got peoples attention and turned out to have some pretty good arguments on each side.

No problem. Just as a suggestion though, before venting frustration by jumping down people's throats, try to make sure that they understand your point and vice versa. That Guy's take on your original statement was certainly reasonable given prior debate by the board ON THIS VERY SUBJECT. In general, people here are pretty open to discussion and the type of misunderstanding involved here can be resolved without the need to get bent out of shape.

Unless, of course, offiss is involved in the debate. : )

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by wbecker999

When I jumped down peoples throats
The only rebuttal I was getting was along the lines of
"one catch doesn't define a career" witch was not implied in my message anyway.
Can anyone see how that was frustrating?

I apologize for offending anyone
I was trying to raise the level of this debate.

As for the topic it got peoples attention and turned out to have some pretty good arguments on each side.

that's a lie and compeltely untrue. you called me out for "not having any insight" (which you have yet to provide), and YOU made up that retarded argument so YOU could use it as a straw man. (i said one good catch doesn't cancel the fact that he goes mia for entire games at a time. if you can't see how warped you're making that, you really need to go back and try to read more carefully or get some help). it's total BS that you keep trying to put those words in my mouth when i NEVER SAID ANYTHING REMOTELY LIKE THAT. then you only use that one BS argument which YOU MADE UP AND EXISTS ONLY IN YOUR HEAD and ignore all the other points that were brought up.

that's doing nothing to raise the level of debate... in fact, you've pretty much refused to debate anything since i have yet to see a response to any of the points that have been mentioned or anything insightful that could possibly prove he's not a bust. if anything, you've been actively trying to avoid or lower the level of debate. oh yeah, and then you play off some stupid victim routine.

That's frustrating.

*worst stats for any starting WR in the super bowl era - no response.

*his ypc is NOT NEAR the best in the league like you said - no response.

*he's made multiple spats on the sidelines, a bad history in SF, and andre carter (when asked about lloyd's character) basically said "no comment" - you're only response is to cut him some slack, even though he's shown no improvement and refuses to accept blame for anything that goes wrong (and even said he sees absolutely no reason to ever change that kind of attitude).

*he's never had a 1,000 yard season, and the 49ers definitely didn't think he was worth keeping around at the vet min - no response

*goes mia for games - your response - what's backing that up - my response - look at the stats and box scores, it's pretty obvious, or watch the games.
"Like you went to a game and watched him and never got separation."
- like you went and saw him open by 20 yards every play.
that's another bullshit strawman and an amazing appearance of the "i'm right cause i said so" argument yet again. but that's useless cause there's no proof at all for what your saying or anything that rebuffs those stats. moss and cooley and even el produced just fine, so what?, was lloyd the victim of a vast right wing conspiracy? it makes no sense - he was even on the field for more snaps than el as a WR.

*plenty of good WRs put up stats with crappy QBs (in response to your "well, it's campbell's fault for not being peyton argument). check joe horn, check randy moss, check boldin and fitzgerald, check torry holt with a 3rd string QB, and i'm sure there's tons of other examples. - no response

if you're going "to raise the level of debate" how about responding to criticism of your position instead of shadowboxing strawmen and playing the victim?

i'm still waiting for that "insightful" reply.

[RobH4413]

wbecker999... I never, ever ever use this phrase. I think's it's horrible. I think it lowers the level of decency on the board. I think it's pretty nerdy as well.

However,

you just got PWNED!

[wbecker999]

Originally Posted by That Guy

that's a lie and compeltely untrue. you called me out for "not having any insight" (which you have yet to provide), and YOU made up that retarded argument so YOU could use it as a straw man. (i said one good catch doesn't cancel the fact that he goes mia for entire games at a time. if you can't see how warped you're making that, you really need to go back and try to read more carefully or get some help). it's total BS that you keep trying to put those words in my mouth when i NEVER SAID ANYTHING REMOTELY LIKE THAT. then you only use that one BS argument which YOU MADE UP AND EXISTS ONLY IN YOUR HEAD and ignore all the other points that were brought up.

that's doing nothing to raise the level of debate... in fact, you've pretty much refused to debate anything since i have yet to see a response to any of the points that have been mentioned or anything insightful that could possibly prove he's not a bust. if anything, you've been actively trying to avoid or lower the level of debate. oh yeah, and then you play off some stupid victim routine.

That's frustrating.

*worst stats for any starting WR in the super bowl era - no response.

*his ypc is NOT NEAR the best in the league like you said - no response.

*he's made multiple spats on the sidelines, a bad history in SF, and andre carter (when asked about lloyd's character) basically said "no comment" - you're only response is to cut him some slack, even though he's shown no improvement and refuses to accept blame for anything that goes wrong (and even said he sees absolutely no reason to ever change that kind of attitude).

*he's never had a 1,000 yard season, and the 49ers definitely didn't think he was worth keeping around at the vet min - no response

*goes mia for games - your response - what's backing that up - my response - look at the stats and box scores, it's pretty obvious, or watch the games.
"Like you went to a game and watched him and never got separation."
- like you went and saw him open by 20 yards every play.
that's another bullshit strawman and an amazing appearance of the "i'm right cause i said so" argument yet again. but that's useless cause there's no proof at all for what your saying or anything that rebuffs those stats. moss and cooley and even el produced just fine, so what?, was lloyd the victim of a vast right wing conspiracy? it makes no sense - he was even on the field for more snaps than el as a WR.

*plenty of good WRs put up stats with crappy QBs (in response to your "well, it's campbell's fault for not being peyton argument). check joe horn, check randy moss, check boldin and fitzgerald, check torry holt with a 3rd string QB, and i'm sure there's tons of other examples. - no response

if you're going "to raise the level of debate" how about responding to criticism of your position instead of shadowboxing strawmen and playing the victim?

i'm still waiting for that "insightful" reply.

Here's some insight.

You have issues

Maybe some anger management will help.

How about some Midal or pamprin?

GET SOME HELP WITH TUNNEL VISION WHILE YOUR SEEING YOUR SHRINK.

ALLOW SOMEONE ELSE'S PERSPECTIVE TO ENTER YOUR MIND INSTEAD OF TAKING OFFENSE TO EVERYTHING AND THEN POPPING OFF ABOUT IT

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by wbecker999

Here's some insight.

You have issues

Maybe some anger management will help.

How about some Midal or pamprin?

GET SOME HELP WITH TUNNEL VISION WHILE YOUR SEEING YOUR SHRINK.

ALLOW SOMEONE ELSE'S PERSPECTIVE TO ENTER YOUR MIND INSTEAD OF TAKING OFFENSE TO EVERYTHING AND THEN POPPING OFF ABOUT IT

see, how insightful. again, you're proving yourself worthless and avoiding the issues. ad hominem attacks don't count as worthwhile responses to criticism.

and again, YOU'RE the one with tunnel vision that refuses to see another perspective. i've laid out why i have my opinion, and you've done (and continue to do) nothing to change anyone's mind. if the best response you have to logical arguments is throwing a tatrum, maybe you should take you're own advice and try that midal you've suggested.

just more hypocrisy from wbecker. better luck next time.


btw, you asked for debate, and when someone brings up a point, being b*tchy doesn't really count as debating. If you think i'm taking offense to what you've posted, you're sorely mistaken, but, at the same time, i'm going to articulate a response when you say something that doesn't make ANY sense or start mis-quoting me on purpose.

oh yeah,, logical retort != (does not equal) popping off. It's too bad you can't tell the difference though.

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by wbecker999

Here's some insight.

You have issues

Maybe some anger management will help.

How about some Midal or pamprin?

GET SOME HELP WITH TUNNEL VISION WHILE YOUR SEEING YOUR SHRINK.

ALLOW SOMEONE ELSE'S PERSPECTIVE TO ENTER YOUR MIND INSTEAD OF TAKING OFFENSE TO EVERYTHING AND THEN POPPING OFF ABOUT IT

There's no need to get dis-respectful. You were wrong, so how about instead of flipping out (all caps, even in part of your post, is obnoxious) why don't you man up and give a logical response.

You were all about elevated discourse earlier, so practice what you preach. I think that there are several good arguments as to why Brandon Lloyd is not a bust, use them!

Personally, I think the jury is still out on him. I think he has all the tell tale signs of a bust, but how much of a chance did he really get with Mark Brunell. He wasn't terrible in SF at all with Alex Smith, and it could be just him losing his composure towards the end of his tenure last season.

One thing he has to work on is maturity, and my post earlier in the thread highlighted that. If he can work on controlling his temper, playing for the team, he could be a very talented and productive WR.

The skills are there, he clearly has the ability to be a good WR. The question now is whether or not he has the desire. Only time will tell.

[NM Redskin]

Originally Posted by That Guy

*worst stats for any starting WR in the super bowl era.

Ouch, i dub thee bust (so far).

[wbecker999]

*worst stats for any starting WR in the super bowl era - response

Ike Hilliard Tampa's # 2
2006 16 games 339 yds 10 ypc

Billy McMullen Vikings #2

2006 16 games 307 yds 13.3 ypc

Troy Brown
16 games 384yds 8.9 ypc

Brandan Jones
16 games 384 yds 14.2 yds per catch

Peerless price Buffalo bills #2
16 games 402 yds 8.2 yds per catch


Lloyd had only 15 games with 365 yds 15.9 yds per catch

These are just 2006 stats not since the super bowl era

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by wbecker999

*worst stats for any starting WR in the super bowl era - response

Ike Hilliard Tampa's # 2
2006 16 games 339 yds 10 ypc

Billy McMullen Vikings #2

2006 16 games 307 yds 13.3 ypc

Troy Brown
16 games 384yds 8.9 ypc

Brandan Jones
16 games 384 yds 14.2 yds per catch

Peerless price Buffalo bills #2
16 games 402 yds 8.2 yds per catch


Lloyd had only 15 games with 365 yds 15.9 yds per catch

These are just 2006 stats not since the super bowl era

math.
peerless price - 402 > 365.
troy brown 384 > 365 (and in only 9 starts).
brandon jones 384 > 365 (only 10 starts)

ike hillard was NOT the bucs #2, he had 0 starts.
clayton was the #2, but he got hurt after putting up 356yards in 9 starts (12 games) while on pace for 480 yards.

vikings - mcmullen had 0 starts. their starters were travis taylor (651 yards) and troy williamson (14 games, 455 yards) both of which beat lloyd.

you're going to have to keep looking.

[wbecker999]

Originally Posted by That Guy

math.
peerless price - 402 > 365.
troy brown 384 > 365 (and in only 9 starts).
brandon jones 384 > 365 (only 10 starts)

ike hillard was NOT the bucs #2, he had 0 starts.
clayton was the #2, but he got hurt after putting up 356yards in 9 starts (12 games) while on pace for 480 yards.


vikings - mcmullen had 0 starts. their starters were travis taylor (651 yards) and troy williamson (14 games, 455 yards) both of which beat lloyd.
[COLOR="Red"]

you're going to have to keep looking.

All of the above receivers are listed as #2 on there teams rosters
they all played in 16 games each

Lloyd had only 12 starts but played in 15 games

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by wbecker999

All of the above receivers are listed as #2 on there teams rosters
they all played in 16 games each

Lloyd had only 12 starts but played in 15 games

maybe now, but not in 2006, when they actually played. If you think travis taylor or troy williamson weren't the vikings starters last year, that's just flat out wrong.

Originally Posted by wbecker999

Its a game of inches

okay... and what bearing does that have on anything at all?

[RobH4413]

I've read most of the members on this boards posts long enough to form an opinion about someone, and make a character call based on that. So I guess my biased defense of Thatguy stemmed from a few things...

1) He's a respectable poster
2) He was right in this particular case
3) I suck his dick