Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

But Vinny isn't responsible for trading away picks. So if you don't like that strategy, your beef isn't with Vinny.

I look at our players on offense and I think he did a pretty good job of assembling talent. But, if you don't think the guys I list below are any good, please feel free to differ.

Jason Campbell - It's early, but he looks very promising
Clinton Portis - Need I say more
Ladell Betts - Excellent pick in the middle of the 2nd round
Rock Cartwright - He's not a starter, but he's excellent value for a 7th rounder.
Chris Cooley - Excellent pick, especially in the 3rd round
Santana Moss - Everyone thought we got screwed on the Coles trade, maybe not?
ARE - I simply love the guy, even if he's not posting 1,000 yard seasons
The entire O-line - Love em all.

I think we've got the talent on offense to be incredibly explosive if JC picks up his game and develops nicely.

I really don't like anyone who evaluates talent on our team, I know big surprise but I really don't think he has a whole lot of say about trades and draft picks, we all know that Campbell, and Portis, are Gibbs, and Gibbs alone.

And for the record I am not everyone, I was a big Moss guy.

Personally I believe the buck stops with Gibbs, do I believe Cerratto has any clue how to build a team? No! But Gibbs has final say no matter what kind of information any of these guy's feed him, so he is absolutly 100% accountable for talent evaluation, and if you can't evaluate established NFL talent which is almost all we deal with than you have no buisness handling personel.

As for Clinton Portis? I can say more, Stephen Jackson!

Rock who?

I believe Snyder drafted Betts?

Moss should have been a Skin from the start, although VC was gone when we drafted Gardner he said in an interview before we picked that Gardner was the guy we should draft.

Cooley, great pick, but don't forget we had to give up a 2nd rd pick the following season because we didn't have a #2 that season because of the Portis trade, so essentially that trade cost us 2 second rd picks, how nice would Stephen Jackson look in a Skins uniform right now? And would have cost a heck of a lot less, Not to mention the extra picks we would have kept if Bailey were to be traded for just draft picks, let's see we already know we would have had 2#2's plus in all likely hood at least an additional 1st and 2nd rd pick for Bailey and probably more than that. At least 4 draft picks in the first 2 rounds that's a lot of talent we gave up [if we drafted properly] for 1 player, I will never be in favor of that trade, it cost us way to much!

[Beemnseven]

Stephen Jackson? You're saying we should have passed on Sean Taylor and draft a guy who wasn't taken until pick #24?

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Stephen Jackson? You're saying we should have passed on Sean Taylor and draft a guy who wasn't taken until pick #24?

No, I was the first guy on this board to start yelling for Taylor, but with the picks we would have recieved from a trade of Bailey rather than a swap and one of our picks, we could have easily grabbed Jackson late in the round and probably have traded down with the #1 and then some to get him with what we would have recieved in return for Bailey. That's all if we have a clue on how to minipulate the draft, and the ability to evaluate college talent and how a player will transition to the pro game, which we don't have a clue unless it's a top 10 no brainer type pick, and we aren't overly brilliant in that dept. unless Rogers has a breakout year?

I would take Jackson in a heartbeat over Portis!

Watched america's game tonight on the 82' Skins, funny Gibbs didn't want Joey T. or Riggin's when he arrived, how wrong was he on that one?

[Beemnseven]

He's a fan favorite, so I know I'm walking on eggshells when I fail to put him the upper echelon they way others do.

There was a slump he went through part of last year when he just wasn't a factor, but it was only his third year in the league with quarterback issues to deal with, so I'll allow for that.

I just need to see more of an impact before I group him with Gates, Gonzales, Witten, Crumpler, or Clark.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I just need to see more of an impact before I group him with Gates, Gonzales, Witten, Crumpler, or Clark.

Do you mean Dallas Clark?

C'mon the guy has never topped 40 catches or 5 TDs in one season.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Do you mean Dallas Clark?

C'mon the guy has never topped 40 catches or 5 TDs in one season.

Yeah, but he's competing with Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne for catches. I still think he's a better athlete, and is a key ingredient for that offense regardless of his numbers.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Yeah, but he's competing with Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne for catches. I still think he's a better athlete, and is a key ingredient for that offense regardless of his numbers.

Regardless of who's the better athlete I'm talking about production... and Cooley has easily outproduced Clark. Clark's season high in catches is 37, Cooley did that as a rookie. Even Marcus Pollard was more productive than Clark in his time with the Colts.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Regardless of who's the better athlete I'm talking about production... and Cooley has easily outproduced Clark. Clark's season high in catches is 37, Cooley did that as a rookie. Even Marcus Pollard was more productive than Clark in his time with the Colts.

I think part of what makes for a "top tier" tight end isn't necessarily measured in numbers the way it is for wideouts. They're a more subtle aspect of what makes up a great offense. The threat they pose as an outlet receiver, the blocking they're required to do, it's difficult to pinpoint ...

I just don't think Cooley's there yet. He could be close, though.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I think part of what makes for a "top tier" tight end isn't necessarily measured in numbers the way it is for wideouts. They're a more subtle aspect of what makes up a great offense. The threat they pose as an outlet receiver, the blocking they're required to do, it's difficult to pinpoint ...

I just don't think Cooley's there yet. He could be close, though.

Where would you rank him?

Top 10? Top 15?

Personally I'd find it very hard to put him outside of the top 10.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

He's a fan favorite, so I know I'm walking on eggshells when I fail to put him the upper echelon they way others do.

There was a slump he went through part of last year when he just wasn't a factor, but it was only his third year in the league with quarterback issues to deal with, so I'll allow for that.

I just need to see more of an impact before I group him with Gates, Gonzales, Witten, Crumpler, or Clark.

Honestly, the only people I can place above him are Gonzales, Gates and Crumpler. He outperforms Clark and Witten constantly.

I won't say he's better than Gonzales, but I WILL say that Gonzo is the ONLY receiving option in KC which is why he catches so many balls. I'm surprised Shockey isn't in there as well. I STILL think Cooley is better than him. I would also say it's almost a tie between Gates and Cooley.

[#56fanatic]

its funny how this has turned into one of our players this oranization has drafted. Not set up by the previous regime. We have basically Betts (backup) cooley, Taylor, Campbell, Rogers(jury still out!) Rocky(remains to be seen) as the players that contrbute out of 49 rounds of drafting. thats 49 rounds!! take away the draft that Casserly set up, which was a no brainer w/ LaVar and Samuels and you have less impact players that are on the roster contributing. We have so many of these threads going on and its always the same thing. FO makes too many mistakes trying to win now. that mentality has to go for a year or two to build up a quality depth chart of young players. until this is done we will lead the league in all the wrong catagories(payroll, dead cap, LOSSES) Most notibly, players complaining about all the crap that goes on inside Redskin park. They do the right thing and keep it close to the vest while here, but when they leave, the flood gates open. Every player that has left this team says the same thing. It can not be dismissed as a player just dogging the team and its meaningless. There begins to be truth behind it when multiple players all say the same thing.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

Every player that has left this team says the same thing. It can not be dismissed as a player just dogging the team and its meaningless. There begins to be truth behind it when multiple players all say the same thing.

Every player? I guess it wasn't a big enough problem for guys like Stoutmire and Smoot who've come back. And I never heard Bowen, Royal, or Dockery say bad things. And Ramsey took it like a man and said he's not blaming anyone, just trying to move on. And LaVar, Darnerien, and Gardner can all just shut up because no team wants any of them anyway.