Defensive End - How Big is Our Need?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by GiantsSuck703

Oh yes, I can really see Brandon Jacobs putting up 250 against us. Seriously, lets go ahead and draft a DT who cant rush the passer, then we can stop the run, yet we still give up huge pass plays all game because our DB have to cover for 10-15 seconds, its the same situation as last year. Take the bears for example, two really good DT, they stopped the run in the superbowl, but they couldnt get to Peyton Manning and he torched them. Larry Fitzgerald is a possesion reciever, Calvin Johnson is not, hes tall and very fast, runs great routes and can go up after the ball, hes the complete package as far as recievers are concerned, thats why everyone is on his nuts, as you so wonderfully put it.

Why don't we draft a player without a painfully glaring weakness, like Amobi Okoye?

The Chicago Bears have better defensive ends than a Carter/Adams combination for sure. Ogunleye and Brown can both rush the passes and defend the run, and Mark Anderson is the prototype for situational pass rusher.

Secondly, the Bears' best DT Tommie Harris, maybe the best DT in the NFL, did not play in the super bowl. The commentators only said this a half billion times.

Thirdly, Peyton Manning torches everyone. We've been over this.

Fourth and finally, you are only talking about one game here.

Defend your position that Larry Fitzgerald is a possession receiver, please.

Also, according to you, the only things that matter for a receiver are that he's tall, fast, runs great routes, and can go up after the ball. So lets pass on Calvin Johnson and get Koren Robinson--A.K.A. the complete package--on the phone.

All wonderful reasons to immortalize a player prior to draft day.

[GiantsSuck703]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Why don't we draft a player without a painfully glaring weakness, like Amobi Okoye?

The Chicago Bears have better defensive ends than a Carter/Adams combination for sure. Ogunleye and Brown can both rush the passes and defend the run, and Mark Anderson is the prototype for situational pass rusher.

Secondly, the Bears' best DT Tommie Harris, maybe the best DT in the NFL, did not play in the super bowl. The commentators only said this a half billion times.

Thirdly, Peyton Manning torches everyone. We've been over this.

Fourth and finally, you are only talking about one game here.

Defend your position that Larry Fitzgerald is a possession receiver, please.

Also, according to you, the only things that matter for a receiver are that he's tall, fast, runs great routes, and can go up after the ball. So lets pass on Calvin Johnson and get Koren Robinson--A.K.A. the complete package--on the phone.

All wonderful reasons to immortalize a player prior to draft day.

As far as Koren Robinson is concerned, hes actually a pretty good player when he can stay on the field, he just has to many off the field problems, his talent has never been his problem. I have no problem with Okoye, I actually like him as a prospect, I just like Gaines Adams more, would i be upset if we pick Okoye, absolutely not. And im not trying to be a prick, I just would like to know your criteria for a guy being a good reciever if those dont fit the bill. I was using the bears as an example because O-gun and Alex Brown are both small speed rushers, actually i believe both are smaller than Andre Carter and Gaines Adams, which ever way we go in the draft, we will never be able to fix this defense with one draft, its going to take time.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by GiantsSuck703

As far as Koren Robinson is concerned, hes actually a pretty good player when he can stay on the field, he just has to many off the field problems, his talent has never been his problem. I have no problem with Okoye, I actually like him as a prospect, I just like Gaines Adams more, would i be upset if we pick Okoye, absolutely not. And im not trying to be a prick, I just would like to know your criteria for a guy being a good reciever if those dont fit the bill. I was using the bears as an example because O-gun and Alex Brown are both small speed rushers, actually i believe both are smaller than Andre Carter and Gaines Adams, which ever way we go in the draft, we will never be able to fix this defense with one draft, its going to take time.

I don't worry too much about a receiver prospect physically. The best prospects are intelligent, and well experienced at the NCAA level. I think route running would be one of my top criterias, but outside of that, I want the guy who can turn the short catch into the long play. That skill takes a player who understands defenses like the back of his hand, knows where his man is going to be almost instinctively, and makes his move accordingly.

Is this something that CJ is good at? Possibly. Can we expect him to be as good at it as Santana Moss? That's a tall order. Consequently, I think he would be hard pressed for CJ to be better than Moss anytime between now and 2010.

The main point of contention is whether or not CJ brings something to the table that we haven't seen before. Obviously he doesn't. Tall receviers run 4.3 all the time, its an impressive feat, but not a deal breaker. If we fix the DL now, I'd be more open to considering a receiver with a high pick next year when inevitably there will be someone who will be dubbed the greatest receiver since Rice.

Beware of the hype. It surrounds the players who leave college early. Remember, these players passed up a final chance to better their game prior to their inception into the NFL. Essentially speaking, they are 3/4ish the player they would have been at the NFL level had they stayed another year. That doesn't invalidate talent, but when it comes to underclassmen receivers, such as Johnson, you can almost be certain that the hype will far exceed their potential. Johnson doesn't have any red flags to make me think he will bust out, but then again, neither did David Terell or Koren Robinson.

[GiantsSuck703]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I don't worry too much about a receiver prospect physically. The best prospects are intelligent, and well experienced at the NCAA level. I think route running would be one of my top criterias, but outside of that, I want the guy who can turn the short catch into the long play. That skill takes a player who understands defenses like the back of his hand, knows where his man is going to be almost instinctively, and makes his move accordingly.

Is this something that CJ is good at? Possibly. Can we expect him to be as good at it as Santana Moss? That's a tall order. Consequently, I think he would be hard pressed for CJ to be better than Moss anytime between now and 2010.

The main point of contention is whether or not CJ brings something to the table that we haven't seen before. Obviously he doesn't. Tall receviers run 4.3 all the time, its an impressive feat, but not a deal breaker. If we fix the DL now, I'd be more open to considering a receiver with a high pick next year when inevitably there will be someone who will be dubbed the greatest receiver since Rice.

Beware of the hype. It surrounds the players who leave college early. Remember, these players passed up a final chance to better their game prior to their inception into the NFL. Essentially speaking, they are 3/4ish the player they would have been at the NFL level had they stayed another year. That doesn't invalidate talent, but when it comes to underclassmen receivers, such as Johnson, you can almost be certain that the hype will far exceed their potential. Johnson doesn't have any red flags to make me think he will bust out, but then again, neither did David Terell or Koren Robinson.

I think what sold me on CJ was his after the catch runs against Virginia Tech, the hokies who happen to be my favorite college team had the top ranked defense in the nation and he absolutely torched them, I dont let his forty time or his measurables fool me in any way, I like ACC football and got to see him play alot and he dominated with a horrible QB (Reggie Ball), thats the main reason i like him, but like i said I would not be bothered at all if we took Okoye, I wouldnt mind us taking Laron Landry either, although i would like to see what Reed Doughtys got.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by GiantsSuck703

I think what sold me on CJ was his after the catch runs against Virginia Tech, the hokies who happen to be my favorite college team had the top ranked defense in the nation and he absolutely torched them, I dont let his forty time or his measurables fool me in any way, I like ACC football and got to see him play alot and he dominated with a horrible QB (Reggie Ball), thats the main reason i like him, but like i said I would not be bothered at all if we took Okoye, I wouldnt mind us taking Laron Landry either, although i would like to see what Reed Doughtys got.

I think Johnson did reach the pinnical of the college game, a game where physical skills often overshadow mental acuity. But he's still going pro with a lot to learn. He can't ever make up this lost EXP in the NFL, he's going to be on the same learning curve as his entire class now.

I think the only first round WR who will live up to the hype surrounding him will be Dwayne Bowe of LSU.

It wouldn't shock me if Bowe had a better career than Johnson, despite the sizable gap in talent.