The Official Warpath Sign Tim Rattay and Cut Todd Collins Thread

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Damon Huard played really well...for half a season. That doesn't exactly make him a proven commodity.

We don't know for certain that Todd Collins sucks, but based on the few things we DO know about him, it's a reasonable assumption.

You know what you have in Brunell. High completion %, low INT, gets the ball out of his hand quickly, and consistency. Probably too old to consistently evade a rush.

We don't know if Collins is good for any of that. No reason to think he is.

Cut him and get Rattay.

GTripp, this makes no sense. You want to cut a guy who knows Saunders' offense for a guy who has no clue how to run it? Why?

You'd have to pay more for Rattay than Collins.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

GTripp, this makes no sense. You want to cut a guy who knows Saunders' offense for a guy who has no clue how to run it? Why?

You'd have to pay more for Rattay than Collins.

I agree that you need QBs who are familiar with and comfortable in Saunders' offense. However, I think that argument weighs in favor of signing Rattay.

Brunell and Collins are almost certainly done after this season. So it's a foregone conclusion that we are going to have to bring in someone new.....and soon. So, we might as well bring in a new #3 who will learn the offense this year and be ready to step up to #2 next season when Brunell is gone, as opposed to having a new #2 and #3 next season.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I agree that you need QBs who are familiar with and comfortable in Saunders' offense. However, I think that argument weighs in favor of signing Rattay.

Brunell and Collins are almost certainly done after this season. So it's a foregone conclusion that we are going to have to bring in someone new.....and soon. So, we might as well bring in a new #3 who will learn the offense this year and be ready to step up to #2 next season when Brunell is gone, as opposed to having a new #2 and #3 next season.

Why are you assuming Collins will be gone after this season?? Please explain why that's a "foregone conclusion?"

To date, with all of our cap maneuvering, the team has kept Todd Collins on the roster despite the fact that they could cut him right this very minute and save $1.2 million in cap space. They've decided to keep him anyway, because they see value in him.

I see no reason to believe we won't consider signing him to a one-year deal next season at or near the vet minimum. All indications are that the guy is still in favor in Saunders' mind, mainly for the comfort level of having someone who knows what they're doing in an emergency.

A foregone conclusion that he's out of here? That couldn't be further from the truth.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

GTripp, this makes no sense. You want to cut a guy who knows Saunders' offense for a guy who has no clue how to run it? Why?

You'd have to pay more for Rattay than Collins.

It's not hard to "know Saunders' offense." Memorize the playbook, and you know his offense.

Comfort level is another thing, and Collins probably has that. Doesn't make a lot of difference if he can't play.

I'm essentially rejecting the notion that Al Saunders' offensive philosophy is somehow mystical and tougher to understand than an average NFL offense. The human brain is capable of far more than memorizing 700 pages worth of plays. If that's part of your job, and you can't learn Saunders' offense in 3 months or less to the point where you can play proficiently, you're probably in the wrong business.

I don't think Collins is of much use to this team. He's obviously the best QB on the roster if Brunell and Campbell get hurt, and that's probably not going to happen, but Rattay is on the market now. We know we are going to be looking at the market for a backup next year. Why not make the move for a QB now while it's a GREAT value.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

It's not hard to "know Saunders' offense." Memorize the playbook, and you know his offense.

Comfort level is another thing, and Collins probably has that. Doesn't make a lot of difference if he can't play.

I'm essentially rejecting the notion that Al Saunders' offensive philosophy is somehow mystical and tougher to understand than an average NFL offense. The human brain is capable of far more than memorizing 700 pages worth of plays. If that's part of your job, and you can't learn Saunders' offense in 3 months or less to the point where you can play proficiently, you're probably in the wrong business.

I don't think Collins is of much use to this team. He's obviously the best QB on the roster if Brunell and Campbell get hurt, and that's probably not going to happen, but Rattay is on the market now. We know we are going to be looking at the market for a backup next year. Why not make the move for a QB now while it's a GREAT value.

Well, we went 5-11 last year running this offense, that's the biggest indication that it takes a while to learn this offense.

I think you're absolutely crazy for insisting it's not hard to learn Saunders' offense. Memorizing plays is the easy part. The hard part is going through those progressions on the field with linemen running at you, without having to think. When you're playing well, you're not thinking, you're reacting. THAT's what takes a year to get down pat.

It's as if you learned nothing from the past season. You can't just change an offense and expect the team to pick it up seamlessly.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Well, we went 5-11 last year running this offense, that's the biggest indication that it takes a while to learn this offense.

I think you're absolutely crazy for insisting it's not hard to learn Saunders' offense. Memorizing plays is the easy part. The hard part is going through those progressions on the field with linemen running at you, without having to think. When you're playing well, you're not thinking, you're reacting. THAT's what takes a year to get down pat.

It's as if you learned nothing from the past season. You can't just change an offense and expect the team to pick it up seamlessly.

C'mon Schneed. You of all people know that we went 5-11 because the defense regressed from 9 to 31. The offensive production stayed about on par with 2005.

Memorizing play is the easy part. The hard part is going though the progessions on the field. Well said. Such is the job of the NFL QB. Has Tim Rattay not been learning how to go through progressions on the field or something? Dude's not a rookie. He's a seven year vet. His production in limited time makes me think he knows a lot about making reads on the fly and reading his progressions. Al Saunders isn't the only guy who has a passing game based on reads and progressions.

I'm not suggesting we change the offense. I'm suggesting we sign Rattay and cut Collins.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

C'mon Schneed. You of all people know that we went 5-11 because the defense regressed from 9 to 31. The offensive production stayed about on par with 2005.

Yeah the defense is largely to blame for sure. But the offense absolutely did not stay on par. You need to stop looking at so many stats like yards per attempt and all this sabermetric crap. One number matters: POINTS.

2005 - 359 points scored, 13th in the NFL
2006 - 307 points scored, 20th in the NFL

A 15% drop in points.

Cause? Hardly any big plays.

Our yards per carry, and yards per attempt, and QB ratings, and all that crap didn't change much. Gee, effing great. What wins games in the NFL: BIG PLAYS. We didn't generate them.

I know it's been a while since we've watched football, but keep the images from the season fresh in your mind. They tell the tale a lot better than the stat sheet does.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Yeah the defense is largely to blame for sure. But the offense absolutely did not stay on par. You need to stop looking at so many stats like yards per attempt and all this sabermetric crap. One number matters: POINTS.

2005 - 359 points scored, 13th in the NFL
2006 - 307 points scored, 20th in the NFL

A 15% drop in points.

Cause? Hardly any big plays.

Our yards per carry, and yards per attempt, and QB ratings, and all that crap didn't change much. Gee, effing great. What wins games in the NFL: BIG PLAYS. We didn't generate them.

I know it's been a while since we've watched football, but keep the images from the season fresh in your mind. They tell the tale a lot better than the stat sheet does.

How do you suggest we improve the frequency we get big plays at?

Look, the reason I look at sabremetric stats is because points don't tell the whole story. The raw points don't tell you how many turnovers we didn't get this year, how many points the defense didn't score this year, how pathetic our 32nd ranked starting ave. field postion was, or how much the discrepancy of points were just a function of luck. 15% doesn't look all that convincing when you see the reasoning.

Big plays will certainly help, but I don't know how you plan to get them. If you throw deep too often hoping to create big plays, you will raise INTs and kill a lot of drives.

The best way to get big plays is to get the ball in the hands of Moss, Portis and Cooley and let them do their thing. This is a sign Tim Rattay/Cut Todd Collins thread. I don't understand how creating more big plays should be a factor in this decision.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

How do you suggest we improve the frequency we get big plays at?

Look, the reason I look at sabremetric stats is because points don't tell the whole story. The raw points don't tell you how many turnovers we didn't get this year, how many points the defense didn't score this year, how pathetic our 32nd ranked starting ave. field postion was, or how much the discrepancy of points were just a function of luck. 15% doesn't look all that convincing when you see the reasoning.

Big plays will certainly help, but I don't know how you plan to get them. If you throw deep too often hoping to create big plays, you will raise INTs and kill a lot of drives.

The best way to get big plays is to get the ball in the hands of Moss, Portis and Cooley and let them do their thing. This is a sign Tim Rattay/Cut Todd Collins thread. I don't understand how creating more big plays should be a factor in this decision.

This is a good point. Regarding Moss how do you think we can get the ball in his hands more? Do we keep throwing that stupid slip screen that everyone in the NFL has caught on to and hope Santana breaks 5 tackles? No. We are going to have to throw it more in the +20 yard range. So we have to try and throw more deep passes like every other team in the NFL does and not be so paranoid about INT's. Conservative offense only works when you have a great defense and that aint the case here. We tried the conservative offense in 04 and it got us a 6-10 record with a top 5 defense.

[Carnage]

Rattay just signed with the Titans.