Skins stuck at No. 6?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Those are all very plausible trade scenarios and ones that would work out quite nicely. If we could indeed parlay our 6th pick for Okoye and a guy like Woodley, I would be estatic. It would be nice to add two young D-linemen - aging D-line instantly solved.

Absolutely. That would be the most ideal situation.

I'm not holding my breath that it happens though. If we could get Okoye, I'd be happy regardless of what else happened.

The most plausible draft option for the Skins is to draft Okoye at six. If we take Landry or Gaines Adams, it really does spell the end for Carter or Taylor respectively. Taylor might be allowed to play out his contract alongside Landry, but we aren't going to give him a new deal if we have a much better player in Landry already.

The way I see it, Carter and Taylor, although merely above average players, could be pieces we build around for the future. Okoye would be helpful talent to build around them. But Landry and Adams would be replacing some key veterans thus and prolonging the rebuilding process.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Absolutely. That would be the most ideal situation.

I'm not holding my breath that it happens though. If we could get Okoye, I'd be happy regardless of what else happened.

But Landry and Adams would be replacing some key veterans thus and prolonging the rebuilding process.

Yeah, the reason I said it was plausible is that there is a lot of talk of the Falcons pursuing Landry. Granted it's just talk and we've heard a lot of rumors lately, but it's definately one that makes sense. Atlanta needs safety help and Landry is great talent. Moreover, Atlanta has a lot of picks.

I also agree that Adams wouldn't be the best choice given Carter, but Landry wouldn't replace Taylor. I think Taylor and Landry would be a nice duo and we have no one to play opposite Taylor for the next few years.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I also agree that Adams wouldn't be the best choice given Carter, but Landry wouldn't replace Taylor. I think Taylor and Landry would be a nice duo and we have no one to play opposite Taylor for the next few years.

For one thing, when it comes time to pay them the big bucks, we won't be able to afford to pay both. If we were to pay Taylor when his contract came up, we wouldn't be able to give Landry much when his rookie deal ran out.

Also, isn't using two top ten picks in a span of 4 drafts on a position as fungible as safety always a bad idea?

If Sean Taylor really was everything we wanted in a safety, there would be no reason to go get Landry when players like Prioleau or Stoutmire can step in at little cost with virtually no dropoff. To me, for one, taking Landry this high would essentially be admitting that taking Taylor at no. 5 in 2004 was a mistake.

It very well might have been. I kinda see ST as a bit of a Roy Williams effect, a guy who's skill set is just not cut out to be successful with the way the game is being played today. While I think Taylor's top end potential is as a slightly above league average safety, and Williams is as a below league average safety, I'll be really surprised if Taylor ever justifies the 6th pick.

I think Landry is much more cut out for the game that is being played today and his 4 years of playing experience at LSU make him a dream safety prospect, but two top 6 picks playing safety for your team seems like the definition of overkill.

If we had used the ST pick on Tommie Harris, who is best comparable I can give you to Amobi Okoye, we wouldn't be having this discussion. We'd just be drafting Landry. But because we took Taylor, I say we live with our decision, and take Okoye to stop some of the DL bleeding.

I don't know whos going to be the better NFL player, Okoye or Landry. Both are wonderful, top 5 prospects. But I know who the Skins need to take.

So, yeah, I agree that Taylor and Landry would play side by side for a few years, but we'd still have no real pass rush to save Taylor from some weak cover skills. He'd be victimized all season long.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Absolutely. That would be the most ideal situation.

I'm not holding my breath that it happens though. If we could get Okoye, I'd be happy regardless of what else happened.

The most plausible draft option for the Skins is to draft Okoye at six. If we take Landry or Gaines Adams, it really does spell the end for Carter or Taylor respectively. Taylor might be allowed to play out his contract alongside Landry, but we aren't going to give him a new deal if we have a much better player in Landry already.

The way I see it, Carter and Taylor, although merely above average players, could be pieces we build around for the future. Okoye would be helpful talent to build around them. But Landry and Adams would be replacing some key veterans thus and prolonging the rebuilding process.

Gtripp, I really have to start questioning your eye for talent, first you have Bowe going in the top 5, then you have Taylor out the door because Landry is a better player if we draft him? Are you kidding? You don't draft 1 safety to replace a young all pro safety who's proven, and I would fall over if Landry turned out to be as much as equal to Taylor as a football player, if Landry is drafted it's to compliment Taylor as well as free him up to free lance a little more and allow him to ball hawk and go for the big hit, as well to provide more help for our CB's. Carter IMO was a waste, we saw last season why the 9ers tried to move him to LB, but to say it's the end of him? There is such a thing as a salary cap, good luck dumping his contract.

I would like to know what's so great about Okoye? Other than the fact that he play's D-line?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by offiss

Gtripp, I really have to start questioning your eye for talent, first you have Bowe going in the top 5, then you have Taylor out the door because Landry is a better player if we draft him? Are you kidding? You don't draft 1 safety to replace a young all pro safety who's proven, and I would fall over if Landry turned out to be as much as equal to Taylor as a football player, if Landry is drafted it's to compliment Taylor as well as free him up to free lance a little more and allow him to ball hawk and go for the big hit, as well to provide more help for our CB's. Carter IMO was a waste, we saw last season why the 9ers tried to move him to LB, but to say it's the end of him? There is such a thing as a salary cap, good luck dumping his contract.

I would like to know what's so great about Okoye? Other than the fact that he play's D-line?

Okoye is 19 with 4 years of college experience, and yet, still he's a very dominant player. Quite simply, a player like him will never come again. He's the once in a lifetime prospect in this draft. If you wanted a guy with CJ type of talent, you could go trade for Randy Moss. If you wanted Okoye you'd have to draft him.

Back to your initial paragraph, I don't have Bowe going in the top 5. I'm saying that Dwayne Bowe is going to be one of the 5 or 6 best players to come out of the first round of this draft, and the best receiver in this class. This may sound like heresy to people who read dradt websites all day and listen to sportswriters rave about Calvin Johnson's skill, but that's really not what being a good receiver is all about. Good receivers have to be smart and experienced and Dwayne Bowe has one more year of starting experience in a tougher conference than Johnson does. I believe he will transition to the NFL much better than Johnson will.

I also believe that with all the hype around Johnson, the physical abilities of a guy like Bowe are being overlooked. He's 33% more prepared for the NFL than Johnson is--or will ever be--and I don't believe the gap in skill is all that much. That's why I'm certain that Bowe will be the better player.

I hate to use the theory of natural selection to explain a point in football, especially since I'm kinda religious and believe that natural selection is just a pricipal of natural law, but I'm about to make a point with it. Sean Taylor's ability to come up and hit the ballcarrier is always fun to watch. But at the end of the play, its no more effective than any other type of tackle that stops the ballcarrier in his tracks. The NFL is transistioning to a faster league on the interrior, which means that safeties without great cover skills are starting to become more of a liability to their teams then they were a decade ago. Roy Williams is a prime example. He's a great safety if he's playing in the 90's. But his lack of cover skills costs the Cowboys A LOT of points. Guys like him are becoming obsolete, and he will never even be an average safety in this league. Taylor isn't quite as bad, but he's not nearly as dominant as his rep would have you think. He also costs the Redskins some points by lacking cover skills. He can cover somewhat well, so at least he deserves to be a starter.

Guys like Landry are instinctive and impressive in coverage. They are the truely valuable safeties in today's game. Landry will have a long impressive career, and won't cost his team anything in points that any other safety in the league would have stopped. He's great value.

Guys like Williams are becoming extinct, and its that same phenemon that hurts Taylor's effect as a player.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Okoye is 19 with 4 years of college experience, and yet, still he's a very dominant player. Quite simply, a player like him will never come again. He's the once in a lifetime prospect in this draft. If you wanted a guy with CJ type of talent, you could go trade for Randy Moss. If you wanted Okoye you'd have to draft him.

Back to your initial paragraph, I don't have Bowe going in the top 5. I'm saying that Dwayne Bowe is going to be one of the 5 or 6 best players to come out of the first round of this draft, and the best receiver in this class. This may sound like heresy to people who read dradt websites all day and listen to sportswriters rave about Calvin Johnson's skill, but that's really not what being a good receiver is all about. Good receivers have to be smart and experienced and Dwayne Bowe has one more year of starting experience in a tougher conference than Johnson does. I believe he will transition to the NFL much better than Johnson will.

I also believe that with all the hype around Johnson, the physical abilities of a guy like Bowe are being overlooked. He's 33% more prepared for the NFL than Johnson is--or will ever be--and I don't believe the gap in skill is all that much. That's why I'm certain that Bowe will be the better player.

I hate to use the theory of natural selection to explain a point in football, especially since I'm kinda religious and believe that natural selection is just a pricipal of natural law, but I'm about to make a point with it. Sean Taylor's ability to come up and hit the ballcarrier is always fun to watch. But at the end of the play, its no more effective than any other type of tackle that stops the ballcarrier in his tracks. The NFL is transistioning to a faster league on the interrior, which means that safeties without great cover skills are starting to become more of a liability to their teams then they were a decade ago. Roy Williams is a prime example. He's a great safety if he's playing in the 90's. But his lack of cover skills costs the Cowboys A LOT of points. Guys like him are becoming obsolete, and he will never even be an average safety in this league. Taylor isn't quite as bad, but he's not nearly as dominant as his rep would have you think. He also costs the Redskins some points by lacking cover skills. He can cover somewhat well, so at least he deserves to be a starter.

Guys like Landry are instinctive and impressive in coverage. They are the truely valuable safeties in today's game. Landry will have a long impressive career, and won't cost his team anything in points that any other safety in the league would have stopped. He's great value.

Guys like Williams are becoming extinct, and its that same phenemon that hurts Taylor's effect as a player.

ok i like the way you explained yourself but since when does sean taylor not have good cover skills the problem is in 06 he had no safety help so he had to try to do everything himself in 05 and in his rookie season in 04 he had ryan clark everyone remember him to help out what he needs is someone in the secondary to take all the pressure off of him what peoples problem is that they expect him to break records every week so anything less is considered failure but look at the top ballhawking safties in the league they all have someone helping in the secondary no one is doing it alone

ed reed- chris mccalister, samari rolle
brian dawkins- lito shepard, sheldon brown
troy polamalu- had chris hope when he was gone troy struggled a bit even though he made the pro bowl

but getting a safety somewhere somehow or one of our corners becoing shutdown is key for us in 2007

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

ok i like the way you explained yourself but since when does sean taylor not have good cover skills the problem is in 06 he had no safety help so he had to try to do everything himself in 05 and in his rookie season in 04 he had ryan clark everyone remember him to help out what he needs is someone in the secondary to take all the pressure off of him what peoples problem is that they expect him to break records every week so anything less is considered failure but look at the top ballhawking safties in the league they all have someone helping in the secondary no one is doing it alone

ed reed- chris mccalister, samari rolle
brian dawkins- lito shepard, sheldon brown
troy polamalu- had chris hope when he was gone troy struggled a bit even though he made the pro bowl

but getting a safety somewhere somehow or one of our corners becoing shutdown is key for us in 2007

Sean wasn't especially good in coverage in 04 or 05, but he regressed majorly this year. There is NO excuse for him being out of position as much as he was this year and biting on any backfield action that moves. He's got the potential to be an above average safety in this league, but only if he corrects the undisciplined play that plagued him in 2006.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Sean wasn't especially good in coverage in 04 or 05, but he regressed majorly this year. There is NO excuse for him being out of position as much as he was this year and biting on any backfield action that moves. He's got the potential to be an above average safety in this league, but only if he corrects the undisciplined play that plagued him in 2006.

he will be a dominant safety

[Tha Posse]

What pick is Okoye projected to be in the draft? After reading that article today I'm sold on him.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Absolutely. That would be the most ideal situation.

I'm not holding my breath that it happens though. If we could get Okoye, I'd be happy regardless of what else happened.

The most plausible draft option for the Skins is to draft Okoye at six. If we take Landry or Gaines Adams, it really does spell the end for Carter or Taylor respectively. Taylor might be allowed to play out his contract alongside Landry, but we aren't going to give him a new deal if we have a much better player in Landry already.

The way I see it, Carter and Taylor, although merely above average players, could be pieces we build around for the future. Okoye would be helpful talent to build around them. But Landry and Adams would be replacing some key veterans thus and prolonging the rebuilding process.

isnt okoye going to be replacing a garbage vet too and since when is sean taylor merely above average? the guy is the 3rd best free safety in the leagur behind dawkins and reed but he is still a force his problem is he would rather go for the huge hit than the pick or breakup once he stops that he will be the best safety in the league and once he gets a safety that will allow him to roam the entire field like ed reed does and what he was able to do in college so landry or merriweather or micheal griffin or reggie nelson would make sense to that extent and what makes everyone so sure just drafting okoye would instantly solove the d line problems yeah he has tremendous upside but so did heath shuler and william green and tj duckett nothing is for sure so dont be expecting great things just yet lets all just relax and take a wait and see process cause the skins will do something on draft day and lets face it no matter who we get whether it be d lineman safety or in a bizzare turn calvin johnson we are going to cheer for him and get his jersey anyway so 16 long days