Is Russell really better than Quinn?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by hooskins

If you are looking for front offices worst than the Skins, I would also contend Detroit is up there to with Oakland.

Yeah, well, taking one top 10 receiver is questionable the way WRs are being graded by scouts. Taking more than one is inexcusable. I could not support a team that took 3 in consecutive years, espically with all the red flags around Mike Williams.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Yeah, well, taking one top 10 receiver is questionable the way WRs are being graded by scouts. Taking more than one is inexcusable. I could not support a team that took 3 in consecutive years, espically with all the red flags around Mike Williams.

Well you know my feelings about CJ this draft, although I agree that drafting WRs in a row is very bad.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Well you know my feelings about CJ this draft, although I agree that drafting WRs in a row is very bad.

Hey, if he redefines the position and changes the way defenses play for good, I'll eat crow every day for 5 years.

I'm just wondering what all this hype is being based on.

It's just that WR grading has become so piss poor, that you are better off taking the last remaining receiver of a certain group (like Robert Meachem as opposed to CJ) than to take the most hyped guy. History argues that they have an equal chance at success, and one costs you way less.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Hey, if he redefines the position and changes the way defenses play for good, I'll eat crow every day for 5 years.

I'm just wondering what all this hype is being based on.

It's just that WR grading has become so piss poor, that you are better off taking the last remaining receiver of a certain group (like Robert Meachem as opposed to CJ) than to take the most hyped guy. History argues that they have an equal chance at success, and one costs you way less.

Haha I will need to hold you to that. I dont know about the complete redefinition, but I think he will be very good.

But back to the thread, I think there is something else the experts have against Quinn. They just want the bigger, stronger QB rather the smarter experienced one. I still dont get it.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by hooskins

But back to the thread, I think there is something else the experts have against Quinn. They just want the bigger, stronger QB rather the smarter experienced one. I still dont get it.

This point is probably worthy of its own thread topic. But since Russell vs. Quinn may be the shining example that ushers in the new era of scouting principles, this may be the best place to make this point.

I'll try to keep this brief. It's not my strongsuit.

Russell vs. Quinn is just the most fitting example of all the problems that are wrong with scouting today. Among them:

1) The gross refusal to learn from past mistakes
2) The overvaluation of skills that do not contribute to winning football OR contribute far less than we are led to believe
3) The TV scouting media is centered around just a few select opinions, and these select few (exception to Kiper) aren't the hardest workers, to say the least.
4) The out-of-control media hype machine and the cutthroat, dangerous nature surrounding the draft.
5) The inability to admit even the possibility that the qualities that created a good football player 40 years ago just maybe might be somewhat obsolete (see: Roy Williams, Dallas Safety)
6) The perception of the draft being a crapshoot and a lack of desire to even attempt to improve scouting techniques to gain a competitive edge.
7) The inexplicable slow nature of incorporating college statistics into the scouting process.
8) The ridiculous emphasis on the combine and the pride that scouts defend the value of the combine with.
9) The ridiculous inability to correctly evaluate NFL talent even when you get to see these guys play every Sunday.
10) The refusal to realize that rookie football players are almost always a liability and the propensity of teams to draft for immediate need, when they should be trying to draft for future need.
11) The propensity to give up on a successful prospect way too early
12) Teams that hold onto a worthless prospect way too long

I'm sure theres a few I forgot, but these inherent biases (and some scouts may avoid Quinn like the plague because they learned to hate ND at a young age...it happens) are causing the draft to become a crapshoot. Either more people will realize stuff like this and there will be a leaguewide upheavel of scouting departments, or a select few teams will fix these principles, and dominate the league while the other teams wallow in their ignorance. With sabremetric football evaluation starting to gain popularity, some teams will get a lot better at avoiding busts in the draft and through FA. The question is, will all teams adhere to this, or just a select few?

These are going to be a very interesting next couple of offseasons.

[SmootSmack]

Quinn vs. Russell is similar to Shane Battier vs. Kwame Brown. The Wizards could have taken Battier who showed throughout his college career that he was a very good player and had all the tangible and intangbile qualities to be a solid pro player.

But Brown was phenomenal in workouts, absolutely abusing other top prospects include Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry. And his "rawness" made him more appealing to coaches/front office staff who thought he had untapped potential that they could bring out, whereas Battier was as good as he was going to get.

Well, six years later maybe Battier has been nothing more than a solid serviceable player and he is as good as he is going to get. But what he is is pretty good, whereas Brown has to be one of the biggest busts ever.

Another analogy, it's like when some girl wants to date the "bad boy" because she thinks she can change him while the nice guy sits in the corner wondering what the heck just happened here.

I guess what I'm trying to say is scouts/coaches/front office execs etc. sometimes try to force things that aren't there and may never be there largely because of their egos, yet fail to see what's right in front of them. In the immortal words of Gmanc711 sometimes "it is what it is"