One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by skinsWill

This is a topic that i think i can shed some serious light on from all sides. I love dogs,I have two and 1 is a pitt (hes a 90 pound teddybear until someone hits somebody; my gf. found that out when she tried to punch me for something i said and her caught her arm and stared her down) But how many of you have seen a REAL dog fight (not 2 dogs fighting) but there a rules and a point system to "dogfights" much like boxing. I have seen many and to be totally honest, it is one hell of a sport! yes i said SPORT bc. when done right the dogs are training like athletes daily running and weights and the whole 9 yard all the way down to nutrition. It hard at first to watch bc. you think these dogs are getting hurt, which sometimes they do, but i have seen a dog after a fight which it lost bleeding from quite a few places wagging its tail and smiling (if you know pitts you know what im talking about) happy as hell. But if you know the orgiin of the breed know now as "pittbulls" they were used to bait bulls, fight bears and their tolerance for pain i astronomical. They are also one of the few dogs breeds (all of which are closely related) that are not pack oriented by nature, that must be trained to be a part of a pack. To them fighting IS FUN. Now when not done properly (like it is more often then not) they starv the dogs and beat them to make them even more angry, and will let their dog fight to the death (or even worse kill them afterwards themselves) but in REAL "dog fighting" very rarely do dogs get severly injured or die. Most of the time the owners love their dogs just like any of us and will throw in the towel if their dog is in trouble, which happens frequently if a dog is outmatched. I personally feel that dog fighting is one of the greatest sports ever, but too many people dont do it right and like in the case with michael vicks "cousin" or whatever that cruelty and neglect to dogs deserve the same as a punishment to the owner.

WOW. I am shocked at those comments. There is no way this acceptable. In ANY scenario. There is no "FUN" in it, and there is no way it can be "done properly". I won't go so far as to resort to name calling, that's not me, I allow people their views, but you sir, make me very uncomfortable if you truely beleive this.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by skinsWill

This is a topic that i think i can shed some serious light on from all sides. I love dogs,I have two and 1 is a pitt (hes a 90 pound teddybear until someone hits somebody; my gf. found that out when she tried to punch me for something i said and her caught her arm and stared her down) But how many of you have seen a REAL dog fight (not 2 dogs fighting) but there a rules and a point system to "dogfights" much like boxing. I have seen many and to be totally honest, it is one hell of a sport! yes i said SPORT bc. when done right the dogs are training like athletes daily running and weights and the whole 9 yard all the way down to nutrition. It hard at first to watch bc. you think these dogs are getting hurt, which sometimes they do, but i have seen a dog after a fight which it lost bleeding from quite a few places wagging its tail and smiling (if you know pitts you know what im talking about) happy as hell. But if you know the orgiin of the breed know now as "pittbulls" they were used to bait bulls, fight bears and their tolerance for pain i astronomical. They are also one of the few dogs breeds (all of which are closely related) that are not pack oriented by nature, that must be trained to be a part of a pack. To them fighting IS FUN. Now when not done properly (like it is more often then not) they starv the dogs and beat them to make them even more angry, and will let their dog fight to the death (or even worse kill them afterwards themselves) but in REAL "dog fighting" very rarely do dogs get severly injured or die. Most of the time the owners love their dogs just like any of us and will throw in the towel if their dog is in trouble, which happens frequently if a dog is outmatched. I personally feel that dog fighting is one of the greatest sports ever, but too many people dont do it right and like in the case with michael vicks "cousin" or whatever that cruelty and neglect to dogs deserve the same as a punishment to the owner.

This is a really stupid post. You know why? What happens when one of these dogs gets loose? Too many times children and people are killed. You have got to be kidding me!

[skinsfan_nn]

MODS should we combine the TWO VICK threads

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by skinsfan_nn

MODS should we combine the TWO VICK threads

Merged, because I thought we could all comment from here...

[skinsWill]

WOW... thanks guys! and here i thought no-one ever read my posts..... Im gonna say it now b4 anyone else goes ballistic. I was kinda playing devils advocate to creat some discussion to pass the time until the draft.

Now here we go...


Ok so not many people focused on the entire post that i wrote. so let me re-itterate some importnat parts that it seems EVERYONE decided not to read. Like the end where i sad "cruelty and neglect to dogs deserve the same as a punishment to the owner." yes.. .that means if you beat and starve you dog you as the owner should be beaten and starved. I do not agree with "dogfighting" that is portrayed by society where dogs more often than not get killed in the fight or afterwards if it lost. REAL dogfights not the ghetto fights that dee-de and jerome have in their basement. They have rules and points, and the owners care about their dogs where they wont let their dogs get severly hurt or killed. Telling a pitt not to fight is like telling a retriever not to retrieve, if its a well trained dog it will listen but it will still WANT to. The only reason i know all this is bc. one of my old roomates was in a REAL dog fighting circut, i felt the same way as many of you. But it wasnt until i saw it for myself that i understood. The owners train their dogs like athletes (the kind of fighting im talking about is more like boxing or UFC witht he way its run) So if any of you have actually seen a REAL dog fight (which i guess none of you have, bc. you would feel the same way as me) you have NO room to speak. Now as far as the personal attacks go, you guys think what you want i couldnt care less, but dont put words in my mouth takes away from what little rebuttle the bunch of you came up with. i never said it was "beautiful" and if your too narrow minded to read EVERYTHING i wrote in the orig. post than perhaps you are the "brainwashed moron" bc. all you know is what you hear from the media, and nothin you experienced for yourself. I really posted that to get some convo going to pass time until the draft. I have a pitt and it will start fight bc. to him its fun, but what do i do when he does? discipline him so he wont do it anymore, but its in nature so he will always try. In closing 90% of dogfighting is cruel and malicious. the other 10% is a sport... Ill try to check back a little sooner this time so i can respond accordingly

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by skinsWill

REAL dogfights not the ghetto fights that dee-de and jerome have in their basement. They have rules and points, and the owners care about their dogs where they wont let their dogs get severly hurt or killed.

This is what is wrong. There is no way it can be done tastefully, or correctly, or whatever. So I ask you, would you let your child fight like these dogs fight? Of course not, so why would you allow the dogs to do it?
It's ok cause owners stop before they get "severely hurt"???? What? Letting dogs hurt each other is wrong.

Also, the history of the pitbull is a little different that you say by saying he was bred to fight. Yes, from the early 1800's to 1835 they were bred to fight until they were banned. That was a short span of only 35 years. Before and after that, including today, they were used as working dogs. They were used as Livestock workers, employed by police enforcement, used for hearding, and search and rescue missions. Just because some sick humans decided to fight them, doesn't mean that's what they were meant to become. The problem is, people want them to fight, so they TRAIN them to fight. If you do not train them to fight or be vicious, they will be great pets. They were not meant to be fighters and fight other dogs.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by skinsWill

WOW... thanks guys! and here i thought no-one ever read my posts..... Im gonna say it now b4 anyone else goes ballistic. I was kinda playing devils advocate to creat some discussion to pass the time until the draft.

Now here we go...


Ok so not many people focused on the entire post that i wrote. so let me re-itterate some importnat parts that it seems EVERYONE decided not to read. Like the end where i sad "cruelty and neglect to dogs deserve the same as a punishment to the owner." yes.. .that means if you beat and starve you dog you as the owner should be beaten and starved. I do not agree with "dogfighting" that is portrayed by society where dogs more often than not get killed in the fight or afterwards if it lost. REAL dogfights not the ghetto fights that dee-de and jerome have in their basement. They have rules and points, and the owners care about their dogs where they wont let their dogs get severly hurt or killed. Telling a pitt not to fight is like telling a retriever not to retrieve, if its a well trained dog it will listen but it will still WANT to. The only reason i know all this is bc. one of my old roomates was in a REAL dog fighting circut, i felt the same way as many of you. But it wasnt until i saw it for myself that i understood. The owners train their dogs like athletes (the kind of fighting im talking about is more like boxing or UFC witht he way its run) So if any of you have actually seen a REAL dog fight (which i guess none of you have, bc. you would feel the same way as me) you have NO room to speak. Now as far as the personal attacks go, you guys think what you want i couldnt care less, but dont put words in my mouth takes away from what little rebuttle the bunch of you came up with. i never said it was "beautiful" and if your too narrow minded to read EVERYTHING i wrote in the orig. post than perhaps you are the "brainwashed moron" bc. all you know is what you hear from the media, and nothin you experienced for yourself. I really posted that to get some convo going to pass time until the draft. I have a pitt and it will start fight bc. to him its fun, but what do i do when he does? discipline him so he wont do it anymore, but its in nature so he will always try. In closing 90% of dogfighting is cruel and malicious. the other 10% is a sport... Ill try to check back a little sooner this time so i can respond accordingly

Please don't try to justify or clarify your original post. You are dead wrong and your logic sucks. 100% of dogfighting is cruel. Pitts have been bred as aggressive animals, thats true, but a good owner will train and raise his dog in an environment where it will only attack if provoked or in defense of itself or its master. I have a pure-breed Siberian Husky, his breeding makes him a hard worker and he's also part wolf so he will attack (hunt) smaller animals. That doesn't mean I have him pull my lawn mower around the yard or send him afer the neighbor's cat. That's what separates us from animals. Based on your posts I really, for the sake of your dog, hope and pray that you aren't fighting him or planning to fight him. Dogfighting is illegal in all 50 states and a FELONY almost all for a reason, IT IS CRUEL AND INHUMANE. I guess "severly hurt" is a subjective term, would you consider these dogs "severly hurt":

receives a bullet i
n his brain (Brown, 1982, p. 66).

"Of all the creatures, man is the most detestable. Of the entire brood, he is the only one that possesses malice. He is the only creature that inflicts pain for sport, knowing it to be pain. The fact that man knows right from wrong proves his intellectual superiority to the other creatures; but the fact that he can do wrong proves his moral inferiority to any creature that cannot."--Mark Twain

Would it be OK if I inflicted the same kind of damage on you as these dogs have suffered? Please let us know if you plan on fighting your dog, so I can make sure to alert the proper authorities and hopefully you get arrested, convicted and you can find out about cruelty first hand in jail.

[hesscl34]

We have no control over who we are related too. However, if I were Vick I'd kick his a*s out.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by hesscl34

We have no control over who we are related too. However, if I were Vick I'd kick his a*s out.

I agree. I think it's irresponsible for Vick to have his folks in his place to begin with, but I wouldn't go as far as calling him an animal abuser. But, hey, that's just me.

[JoeRedskin]

Different era, different way of playing - But I think SI got it right. Tarkenton was THE greatest scrambling QB. You put him in SF's offense at Young's time and he would have doubled Young's stats.

No, he didn't have a lot of downfield yards but the title is "Scrambling QB's" not "Running QB's". Tark was AMAZING at creating time with his feet.

Was Young the greatest QB of all time? maybe maybe not. it's all a matter of opinion - stats take you only so far. If you ask any general manage who they would rather have - Young or Montana? My bet is that, even with better stats, Young would be the majority second pick.

[JoeRedskin]

If I have a complete team (good O and good D - neither need be overwhelming), Ten QB's I would take over Young (in no particular order):

Brady
Unitas
Montana
Graham (Otto)
Baugh
Marino
Elway
Manning
Farve
Tarkenton

You put Young on an equal team and anyone of those ten beats him at least 50% of the time.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

If I have a complete team (good O and good D - neither need be overwhelming), Ten QB's I would take over Young (in no particular order):

Brady
Unitas
Montana
Graham (Otto)
Baugh
Marino
Elway
Manning
Farve
Tarkenton

You put Young on an equal team and anyone of those ten beats him at least 50% of the time.

If they would beat him 50% of the time wouldn't that make him just as good winning 50% of the time himself?

[MTK]

Dogs don't have "fun". It's the pit bull's instinct to fight and to kill if that instinct is brought to the surface by training... they're not enjoying themselves, it's something that is deeply ingrained in their blood.

Regardless, dog fights under any circumstances are disgusting. Call me ignorant, but I'm not willing to try to see the other side of this.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Dogs don't have "fun". It's the pit bull's instinct to fight and to kill if that instinct is brought to the surface by training... they're not enjoying themselves, it's something that is deeply ingrained in their blood.

Regardless, dog fights under any circumstances are disgusting. Call me ignorant, but I'm not willing to try to see the other side of this.

Not ignorant at all. It's one thing to watch The Discovery Channel and see animals in the wild go after each other. That's cool. People who would train domestic animals to attack each other or people, it's just sick. I find animal cruelty completely and utterly despicable.

I do agree with CampWill about pitt bulls. They are great athletes, loyal, and sweet dogs. But they are aggressive in nature so you have to be careful. I just think it's a shame that they get such a bad rap b/c friggin idiotic thugs think it's cool to abuse them and make them fighters.

Also, if you buy a dog there is an inherent risk you are taking. As much as you train them, it is still an animal with big teeth.

BTW, the raid on Vick's house was for suspicion of drug activity, and they happened to find the whole dog situation.

[skinsWill]

"The problem is, people want them to fight, so they TRAIN them to fight. If you do not train them to fight or be vicious, they will be great pets. They were not meant to be fighters and fight other dogs."



this is where you are mistaken... do you own a pitt? i do. I also used to be a dog trainer. Pitts are naturally DOG AGGRESSIVE, and do not NATURALLY havea pack mentality. My pitt Riley is by far the best dog ive ever owned and one of the smartest. He loves any person he meets (but does not like it when people hit one another, like i posted b4 my gf. tried to punch me for a joke i made and her caught in his mouth her arm and stared her down, my friends will start slap boxing and he will break them up) he loves cats and wont even think about harming my lizard or snakes. But get another male dog or a dog close to his size and he turns into a different animal. He will at that point start a fight. just so you know i break any fight up b4 it gets started and punish him for starting it.