One Of Michael Vicks Home Raided By Police

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Well, technically you are correct. But my point was a scrambling QBs with great passing stats. Something that Vick and Vince Young do not possess.

So throughout history, only Staubach, Elway and Young have put up passing numbers and could scramble. That's a small group, and great company.
I just don't see how you can say that Young is worse than a top 10 all time QB. He's number 1 in my book. My stats prove it.

I've changed my mind. Steve Young is of course top ten. No way is he top five

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

I've changed my mind. Steve Young is of course top ten. No way is he top five

Would you agree with most complete in all facets of the position?

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by angryssg

Would you agree with most complete in all facets of the position?

Not a chance. Young was kind of a basket case. On the sideline after his only SB victory he was running around like a little bitch asking his teamates to grab the monkey off of his back. It's a pretty silly video if you have ever watched it. His big game record was not all that. Major drawback in the complete category rankings seeing as how that is the most important part of the game. Winning under pressure.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

Not a chance. Young was kind of a basket case. On the sideline after his only SB victory he was running around like a little bitch asking his teamates to grab the monkey off of his back. It's a pretty silly video if you have ever watched it. His big game record was not all that. Major drawback in the complete category ranlings seeing as how that is the most important part of the game. Winning under pressure.

WHAT? He was a 62% career post season passer, he was 9-5 (.643%) in games he played a significant part of, scored 28td's rushing and passing, and in the biggest game of his career (super bowl in 94) he threw for 325 yards and 6 (yes that's right 6) td's and no int's. (plus he ran for 49 yards)
He averaged 239 passing yards per postseason game which he played a significant part, ran for 41.07 yards per game (that's a total of 280 total yards), and had 28 total td's to only 13 int's over 14 games. That's an average of 2 td's per game, and just a hair under 1 int per game. Those are solid numbers.
Elway (for instance) played in 22 games, completion percentage of only 54.6 (that's 7.4 less than Young), averaged 226 passing yards (13 fewer than Young), 33 total tds, an average of only 1.5 to young's 2, and 21 int's (that's just a hair under 1 per game). He also averaged 21 rushing yards per game. So he averaged 247 total yards per game...that's 33 fewer yards than Young. Young was better in every catagory. Elway was 14-8 (.636%) in his postseason career. (That's .007 less than Young)
By the way, until the last 2 years of Elway's career, he was 7-8 in the postseason.

Young was one of the smartest players to ever live. And that monkey on his back was something the media placed on him and it was a show to take it off. I have to say, if I was the winning QB and MVP of a super bowl, I am going to be giddy like a little school girl.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

I've changed my mind. Steve Young is of course top ten. No way is he top five

OK, I'm cool with that, but tell me, who would be the ones better than Young?

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by jsarno

OK, I'm cool with that, but tell me, who would be the ones better than Young?

Well I need GTripp to argue for Manning, and I have Tom Brady covered so let's add Marino who's stats dominate everyone's, Elway for his five super bowl appearances and someone like Unitas or Starr or some other greats from the past just out of respect. Montana on top of course.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

Well I need GTripp to argue for Manning, and I have Tom Brady covered so let's add Marino who's stats dominate everyone's, Elway for his five super bowl appearances and someone like Unitas or Starr or some other greats from the past just out of respect. Montana on top of course.

PLEASE DON'T I DON'T WANT TO STARE AT ALL CAPS ALL NIGHT OR MORNING, WHATEVER!

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

Well I need GTripp to argue for Manning, and I have Tom Brady covered so let's add Marino who's stats dominate everyone's, Elway for his five super bowl appearances and someone like Unitas or Starr or some other greats from the past just out of respect. Montana on top of course.

Manning will be a top 5, that I have no doubt, but if he were to retire today, he's not better than Young. So I won't count him. Brady...are you kidding?
I can see why you would take Marino, he was amazing (no sb ring by the way), Elway was great, and Montana was great.
Did you know that Unitas only went to the postseason 3 times in his 18 year career. (68, 70, and 71) He only threw for 190 yards a game on average, and threw 253 career int's. Plus he had a very low 54.6 career completion percentage. No way was he better than Young.
Starr averaged only 124.8 yards passing per game in his career. Had a decent 57.4% comp percentage, but not even close to Young. AND he threw only 14 more tds' than int's in his 16 year career. (152 / 138) Starr only made the pro bowl 4 times in his career. Again, no way better than Young.

So you've only named Marino, Elway and Montana as possibly better. I could argue the point that they are not, but they are very good qb's and won't argue if they are close. This still puts Young in the top 5.

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by jsarno

So you've only named Marino, Elway and Montana as possibly better. I could argue the point that they are not, but they are very good qb's and won't argue if they are close. This still puts Young in the top 5.

I would add Moon to that list. Even though he does not have a ring. Moon was a top QB. He is in the top 5 all time for attempts, completions, passing td's and yards. And a 9 time pro-bowler...

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

I would add Moon to that list. Even though he does not have a ring. Moon was a top QB. He is in the top 5 all time for attempts, completions, passing td's and yards. And a 9 time pro-bowler...

Wow...really? He was 3-7 in the postseason. Hey, Moon was a great QB, but he never won more than 1 post season game in any given season. His stats per season and per game is less than what Young put up...so why do you think he was better? Cause he played longer? Longevity is not a key for me.
In seasons where Moon played 10 or more games, he made the probowl 9 out of 15 seasons. 60% Very good.
In seasons where Young had 150 or more passing attempts in a season, he made the pro-bowl 7 years out of 9 seasons. 77.8% Outstanding. Big difference there.

Young scored a td every 1.63 games. That's 275 total td's in 169 games. And threw only 107 int's, that's an int every .633 games.
Moon scored a td every 1.50 games. That's 313 total td's in 208 games. And threw a whopping 233 int's. That's an int every 1.12 games. That's a huge difference. So young threw more td's (albeit slightly) but Young threw half the int's. That's HUGE.

So why is it you have something against Young...cause you seem to be grasping at straws for a better QB.

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Manning will be a top 5, that I have no doubt, but if he were to retire today, he's not better than Young. So I won't count him. Brady...are you kidding?

Tom Brady is already a better all time quarteback than Steve Young. If you like stats so much you should look at the most powerful stats a QB can have. 12-2 record in the postseason. Nfl record for most consecutive wins in the postseson. 3 rings and he is only halfway through his career. Manning is also already ahead of Young. Brady and Manning could very easily end up#1 and #2 all time.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

Tom Brady is already a better all time quarteback than Steve Young. If you like stats so much you should look at the most powerful stats a QB can have. 12-2 record in the postseason. Nfl record for most consecutive wins in the postseson. 3 rings and he is only halfway through his career. Manning is also already ahead of Young. Brady and Manning could very easily end up#1 and #2 all time.

While I will never in a million years doubt that Manning will end up in the top 5, I do doubt Brady will. Brady has played 6 seasons. If his career were to end tomorrow (and you have to take that into consideration when calculating the best ever) he would not even rank top 20. Brady is a product of his sysem. When Belichick leaves after this season, and he will, watch Brady fall. In 5 or 6 years we're going to be talking about how good Brady USED to be. The fact that you discredit Young ,a hall of famer, with a guy that has only been a starter for 6 seasons is crazy.
Both guys still have a little ways to go, but at least Manning is very close.