Group Coerced Censorship

[dmek25]

offiss, are we in agreement that no matter who reads the bible, it will be interpreted differently? religion is about finding inner peace, no matter how it is achieved. do you really believe that Muslims are bred to kill, according to their scriptures? i would be willing to bet NO religion would condone killing. but many interpret it just that way.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by dmek25

i would be willing to bet NO religion would condone killing. but many interpret it just that way.

Yeah, but that's called being crazy, not simply having a 'different' interpretation. There are lots of things the Bible is open to interpretation on, but getting into heaven is cut and dry:

You want in heaven, you gotta believe in Christ, that's it. Point blank.

The real question is, do you believe in the Bible? For me, that's a big eff no. I think it's a bunch of phoney crap. But that's just me.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The real question is, do you believe in the Bible? For me, that's a big eff no. I think it's a bunch of phoney crap. But that's just me.

I am aware that a similar discussion is/was being carried out in another thread containing similar "I don't believe the Bible" statements and I am not trying to hijack this one but I do have question based on your statement. Mostly out of curiousity.

My question is this - When you say "I don't believe in the Bible" are you saying that you don't believe it as a historical document - i.e. that the information contained it is historically inaccurate? Are you saying that you don't believe in its use as a teaching guide (regardless of the particular christian sect)? Are you saying their are certain principles you believe are contained in the Bible that you disagree with (i.e. - the existence of God)?

I don't "believe in" the Bible. Rather, the Bible provides guidance and insight to me in following my beliefs. I have certain beliefs about how the Bible was written and created, but, again, I do not consider this "believing in" the Bible. Instead, it is beliefs about the Bible.

Many people say they do or don't "believe in the Bible". I am just curious as to what it is you don't "believe" about it.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I am aware that a similar discussion is/was being carried out in another thread containing similar "I don't believe the Bible" statements and I am not trying to hijack this one but I do have question based on your statement. Mostly out of curiousity.

My question is this - When you say "I don't believe in the Bible" are you saying that you don't believe it as a historical document - i.e. that the information contained it is historically inaccurate? Are you saying that you don't believe in its use as a teaching guide (regardless of the particular christian sect)? Are you saying their are certain principles you believe are contained in the Bible that you disagree with (i.e. - the existence of God)?

I don't "believe in" the Bible. Rather, the Bible provides guidance and insight to me in following my beliefs. I have certain beliefs about how the Bible was written and created, but, again, I do not consider this "believing in" the Bible. Instead, it is beliefs about the Bible.

Many people say they do or don't "believe in the Bible". I am just curious as to what it is you don't "believe" about it.

Yeah you're right, it's a pretty broad statement. A summary of my beliefs:

- I don't believe there is a God, a heaven, or a hell.

- I believe that a guy named Jesus existed claiming to be the son of God, because that's been established as historical fact.

- I think a lot of the stories written in the Bible about the amazing things Jesus did, like walking on water, curing the sick, etc. are made up.

- But I do think that the teachings of Jesus, and the way he taught people to live their lives, are great ways to live your life. I'm skeptical of the existence of a higher power, and basically skeptical of believing in anything that has no scientific evidence to indicate it exists. But regardless, I'd like to live my life like Jesus because it just feels like the morally right way to live.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Yeah you're right, it's a pretty broad statement. A summary of my beliefs:

- I don't believe there is a God, a heaven, or a hell.

- I believe that a guy named Jesus existed claiming to be the son of God, because that's been established as historical fact.

- I think a lot of the stories written in the Bible about the amazing things Jesus did, like walking on water, curing the sick, etc. are made up.

- But I do think that the teachings of Jesus, and the way he taught people to live their lives, are great ways to live your life. I'm skeptical of the existence of a higher power, and basically skeptical of believing in anything that has no scientific evidence to indicate it exists. But regardless, I'd like to live my life like Jesus because it just feels like the morally right way to live.

Fair enough. Actually, this is a pretty accurate description of my beliefs approximately 15 or so years ago.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Fair enough. Actually, this is a pretty accurate description of my beliefs approximately 15 or so years ago.

Interesting to see that things changed for you. I plan to always keep an open mind about it. Maybe something will compell me to make the leap of faith in the future, and forget the fact that there's just no scientific evidence. Who knows.

As of now though, I'm too hung up on the no evidence thing.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Yeah you're right, it's a pretty broad statement. A summary of my beliefs:

- I don't believe there is a God, a heaven, or a hell.

- I believe that a guy named Jesus existed claiming to be the son of God, because that's been established as historical fact.

- I think a lot of the stories written in the Bible about the amazing things Jesus did, like walking on water, curing the sick, etc. are made up.

- But I do think that the teachings of Jesus, and the way he taught people to live their lives, are great ways to live your life. I'm skeptical of the existence of a higher power, and basically skeptical of believing in anything that has no scientific evidence to indicate it exists. But regardless, I'd like to live my life like Jesus because it just feels like the morally right way to live.

Well said and I agree 100 percent.

As for the media conviction of Falwell I think it's quite the opposite. He was allowed to maintain a media presence - appearing as an "expert" on panel discussions until his death - in spite of saying bitter hateful things that would have had anyone else tarred and feathered. Compare some of the disgusting things Falwell said over his career with what got Imus canned, and you will see that Reverend Falwell was much much worse.

Falwell will go down historically as the person most responsible for fusing politics and religion, and for that I would hope he is reserved a special spot in hell if I believed in hell, which I don't.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by dmek25

offiss, are we in agreement that no matter who reads the bible, it will be interpreted differently? religion is about finding inner peace, no matter how it is achieved. do you really believe that Muslims are bred to kill, according to their scriptures? i would be willing to bet NO religion would condone killing. but many interpret it just that way.

Respectfully no.


1 corinthians-2-"13": Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing'> spiritual things with'> spiritual.

The bible was written in such a way that you can come to just about any conclusion you want. But there is a guideline which God has given as to how to go about studying the bible, God has laid out in the scripture above that guidline, the bible is a spirtual book so when we study the bible all conclusions that we may come to have to coincide with what the rest of the bible has to say it's a golden thread that runs throw the bible. So for someone to pull one verse and say this is what this means is not neccasarily right, that conclusion has to square with everything else the bible has to say, if it doesn't then you have to continue to search for a deeper meaning.

For example: The verse John 3:16 [the worlds favorite verse] "16'>": For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Many, many, religions use this verse to say God came to save the whole world. But as we read the bible that theory flies in the face of everything else the bible has to say on the subject, for instance a verse I quoted earlier, Matthew-7- "13": Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: How can so many people be going to hell if God came to save the world? Well he didn't come to save the world but individuals who he has choosen.


Philippians, chapter 2-"13": For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


Ephesians, chapter 1-"5": Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.


Philippians, chapter 2-"13": For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


John, chapter 1-"13": Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

What main stream religion has done is created a feels good gospel, go to church, be kind to people, and you will get to heaven, UTTER NONESENSE! Only God can save an individual, not church, not good works, and not in ourselves can anyone be saved.


Ephesians, chapter 2-"8": For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

"9": Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by dmek25

offiss, are we in agreement that no matter who reads the bible, it will be interpreted differently? religion is about finding inner peace, no matter how it is achieved. do you really believe that Muslims are bred to kill, according to their scriptures? i would be willing to bet NO religion would condone killing. but many interpret it just that way.

As for the second part of your question Dmek, ultimatly any religion that is not of God and the bible is a religion onto themselves not just Islam, they are all heading to the same place Hell, and there is where it gets touchy, everyone believes they have the truth, but there is only one truth and one salvation plan.


Hebrews, chapter 2-"3": How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;


So as for muslims in particular? They need salvation just as much as any other false religion, Are they the most hostile religion? Yes, not all are as hostile or extreme as what we see on the news everyday, but you sure don't see other muslims coming out against these extremists keeping their house in order per say.

As for killing, there is a difference between killing and murdering, God has given authority to the gov't or whomever presides over the people to justifidly take life, as the bible says,


Romans, chapter 13-"1": Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

"2": Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

"3": For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

"4": For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

The sword in the bible is used for killing so there are certain situations where killing is acceptable to God, for instance the military as you fight for your country in a war, or the execution of a criminal, but the gov't has a tremendous resposibility not to misuse that authority, the gov't in no wise can break gods laws, example: they have the right to take life but if that right is used to murder than they will come under Gods wrath no different than any one of us.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by offiss

So as for muslims in particular? They need salvation just as much as any other false religion, Are they the most hostile religion? Yes, not all are as hostile or extreme as what we see on the news everyday, but you sure don't see other muslims coming out against these extremists keeping their house in order per say.

If you were born a Muslim do you think you would consider converting to Christianity? What would the chance of that ever happening?

The biggest problems with Islam is that it has self serving and delusional SOBs in positions of "authority." If you speak up you're in danger. Let's also not forget who runs Muslim states. F'ing despots who could careless about the people. Muslims around the world are in bondage. In essence they are in their dark ages and their is no end insight because, lets be frank, there isn't one western state that isn't benefiting from their lack of progress and power (military, monetarily, and intellectually). We'll just have wait and hope they work the poison out of their system on their own but for that to happen we have to make sure we don't add fuel to the fire.

Fortunately for the entire world most Muslims aren't as extreme as some people would like us to think. Could you imagine what the world would be like if all Muslims were extreme and well armed?

[offiss]

Originally Posted by saden1

If you were born a Muslim do you think you would consider converting to Christianity? What would the chance of that ever happening?

The biggest problems with Islam is that it has self serving and delusional SOBs in positions of "authority." If you speak up you're in danger. Let's also not forget who runs Muslim states. F'ing despots who could careless about the people. Muslims around the world are in bondage. In essence they are in their dark ages and their is no end insight because, lets be frank, there isn't one western state that isn't benefiting from their lack of progress and power (military, monetarily, and intellectually). We'll just have wait and hope they work the poison out of their system on their own but for that to happen we have to make sure we don't add fuel to the fire.

Fortunately for the entire world most Muslims aren't as extreme as some people would like us to think. Could you imagine what the world would be like if all Muslims were extreme and well armed?

As a whole I seriously doubt they will ever change, but God can change the heart of any individual he pleases, but converting to christianity and actually becoming a christian [and when I say becoming a christian I do mean an individual in whom God has truly saved, in whom he has changed his heart, not someone who decieded to put a label on himself, or join a church like a child joining the cub scouts], are two entirely different circumstances. So yes I believe a muslim can be saved no different than any other individual.

Well God has kept a lid on them at least on a major scale, but the more we kick God out of this country the more we lose his clock of protection.

As for working out the poison in their system? Islam is the poison!




Kind of an ironic e-mail a friend sent me.

WOW, WHAT A WAKE UP!

Dear God:

Why didn't you save the school children at ?.

Bath, Michigan 1927
Houston , TX 1959
Moses Lake , Washington 2/2/96
Bethel , Alaska 2/19/97
Pearl , Mississippi 10/1/97
West Paducah , Kentucky 12/1/97
Stamp, Arkansas 12/15/97
Jonesboro , Arkansas 3/24/98
Edinboro , Pennsylvania 4/24/98
Fayetteville , Tennessee 5/19/98
Springfield , Oregon 5/21/98
Richmond , Virginia 6/15/98

Littleton , Colorado 4/20/99
Taber , Alberta , Canada 5/28/99
Conyers , Georgia 5/20/99
Deming , New Mexico 11/19/99
Fort Gibson , Oklahoma 12/6/99
Santee , California 3/ 5/01
El Cajon , California 3/22/01 ? and
Blacksburg , Virginia 4/16/07 ?


Sincerely,

Concerned Student

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Reply:

Dear Concerned Student:

I am not allowed in schools.

Sincerely,

God

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[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by offiss

As for working out the poison in their system? Islam is the poison!

Wow. Dude that's really ignorant.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Wow. Dude that's really ignorant.

By all means show me how so, because rest assured I can back that statement up through the bible, how bout trying to do the same, [disproving it through the bible] equal ground with one authority the bible?

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by offiss

By all means show me how so, because rest assured I can back that statement up through the bible, how bout trying to do the same, [disproving it through the bible] equal ground with one authority the bible?

Offiss, I think you've laid out some very solid and scriptural basis to back up God's plan of salvation and the literal place called Hell and the place called Heaven. And I have no doubt that you could also bring about a good handful of scriptures to further your point about Muslims. However, I think this is where the Law of Love, which is the highest commandment of all, should not only be held in consideration but application.

I think to use scripture, and we may certainly disagree here, to engage in a such a debate may border along the lines of error.