Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

[Sammy Baugh Fan]

Subject matter aside that guy makes me sick. He's a jerk.
My Humble opinion.

You may now continue OnTopic.

peace

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Sammy Baugh Fan

Subject matter aside that guy makes me sick. He's a jerk.
My Humble opinion.

What's worse though... him or the sad state of our nation's health care?

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

What's worse though... him or the sad state of our nation's health care?

What's "sad" about our health care system?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

What's "sad" about our health care system?

The fact that if you come to my hospital for an emergency appendectomy and you have a PPO or HMO with Aetna, we'll get paid about $3500 by your insurance company.

If you come in with Cigna, your insurer pays us $6000.

If you don't have insurance and you come in for the same emergency appendectomy, we'll charge you $150,000. You probably won't pay it, but we'll probably force you to give us at least $20,000 and call it a day.

All for the same procedure. So the worse your coverage is, the more your insurance company pays us. Then the crappy insurance companies have to pass the cost on to the people. In the end, only white collar employees with PPOs end up with affordable healthcare premiums.

I'm not kidding. It's common for hospitals to do; it seems unscrupulous but you can't even blame them because of the way the system is set up. If the hospitals don't get paid that well by just a few insurance companies, the cost of treating Medicaid patients would put us out of business.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The fact that if you come to my hospital for an emergency appendectomy and you have a PPO or HMO with Aetna, we'll get paid about $3500 by your insurance company.

If you don't have insurance and you come in for the same emergency appendectomy, we'll charge you $150,000.

I'm not kidding.

OK, I'm no expert in this field, so I'm genuinely confused by people who say that our health care system is broken.

In your example, is this a complaint by the hospitals and doctors that they should get $150,000 for such a procedure whether an individual is covered or not? Or do they honestly feel bad for the uninsured who have to come up with this cost?

Would the situation improve if the federal government allowed for individuals to deduct the cost of their health care coverage off their income taxes? Why don't we ever hear of an offer like this if the politicians are as concerned about the uninsured as they say they are?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

In your example, is this a complaint by the hospitals and doctors that they should get $150,000 for such a procedure whether an individual is covered or not? Or do they honestly feel bad for the uninsured who have to come up with this cost?

No it's definitely not a complaint, it's a necessity for financial survival.

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Would the situation improve if the federal government allowed for individuals to deduct the cost of their health care coverage off their income taxes? Why don't we ever hear of an offer like this if the politicians are as concerned about the uninsured as they say they are?

No, because the federal government would lose way too much revenue. They'd have to enact some sort of other tax to make up for it, lest we end up in an even bigger federal deficit than the one Bush has already pushed us into.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

What's "sad" about our health care system?

Plenty, where should we start?

Let me answer with a question, what's good about our health care system?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Plenty, where should we start?

Let me answer with a question, what's good about our health care system?

The quality. Outcomes and survival rates are higher here than in any other developed nation. Infection rates in hospital facilities are the lowest here of anywhere in the world. While I'm deeply troubled by the cost physicians incur for malpractice coverage, at least there is a system in place to deter physicians from making mistakes. There are fewer physician errors here than in any other nation.

But from a cost standpoint, and a fairness standpoint as far as different people paying different prices for the same service? Yeah we got plenty of problems.

[Crazyhorse1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Plenty, where should we start?

Let me answer with a question, what's good about our health care system?

We have one of the worse and most larcenous health care systems in the industrialized world, all reflected by its incredibly shameful stats. I'm currently looking at a forty thousand buck operation that takes a couple of hours and a week or so in the hospital. Luckily, I have insurance that will reduce the robbery to only an outrage. Many people don't.

I've never liked a Michael Moore, but he's right a lot, espicially in this case. Wait till he does one on the Justice system.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Crazyhorse1

We have one of the worse and most larcenous health care systems in the industrialized world, all reflected by its incredibly shameful stats. I'm currently looking at a forty thousand buck operation that takes a couple of hours and a week or so in the hospital. Luckily, I have insurance that will reduce the robbery to only an outrage. Many people don't.

I've never liked a Michael Moore, but he's right a lot, espicially in this case. Wait till he does one on the Justice system.

Just so I'm clear - you think it is larcenous for the doctor and the hospital to charge you 40K? If so, do you think they would charge less in a government controlled health care system? Do you advocate price controls in all areas or just health care? Who will decide the appropriate charges? How will they insure that competent people will want to enter an industry requiring long hours, extensive (years) training, incredibly high liability risk and still manage to make a good living?

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Just so I'm clear - you think it is larcenous for the doctor and the hospital to charge you 40K? If so, do you think they would charge less in a government controlled health care system? Do you advocate price controls in all areas or just health care? Who will decide the appropriate charges? How will they insure that competent people will want to enter an industry requiring long hours, extensive (years) training, incredibly high liability risk and still manage to make a good living?

right now my insurance company dictates to the doctors how much they will pay for certain procedures. they also dictate what procedures are necessary, and those that aren't. this is definitely NOT good thing.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Just so I'm clear - you think it is larcenous for the doctor and the hospital to charge you 40K? If so, do you think they would charge less in a government controlled health care system? Do you advocate price controls in all areas or just health care? Who will decide the appropriate charges? How will they insure that competent people will want to enter an industry requiring long hours, extensive (years) training, incredibly high liability risk and still manage to make a good living?

Joe, you bring up another component to the problem. The "allowable", ridiculous, out of control, lawsuits that can be filed. The medical community is strapped with the burden of defending, and paying gigantic awards. Seriously driving up the cost of healthcare

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Just so I'm clear - you think it is larcenous for the doctor and the hospital to charge you 40K? If so, do you think they would charge less in a government controlled health care system? Do you advocate price controls in all areas or just health care? Who will decide the appropriate charges? How will they insure that competent people will want to enter an industry requiring long hours, extensive (years) training, incredibly high liability risk and still manage to make a good living?

Your right on look at the terrorist attacks that just failed over seas. Part of the reason this happened is beacause they have a hugh doctor shortage and were allowing in thousands of doctors to fill those needs. So in the rush to do so the terrorist saw an open door and took advantage of the situation.

[Sammy Baugh Fan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

What's worse though... him or the sad state of our nation's health care?

The worst part is he never fixes ANYTHING. Points fingers with lies many times and Cashes In on the Victims.
That is why he sucks.

The messenger perverts and weakens the message to make himself gain.
Jerk.

peace

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Sammy Baugh Fan

The worst part is he never fixes ANYTHING. Points fingers with lies many times and Cashes In on the Victims.
That is why he sucks.

The messenger perverts and weakens the message to make himself gain.
Jerk.

peace

Who ever said it was his job to fix anything?

He's simply shining some light on things that are seriously F'd up, it's up to everyone to do something about it.