Let's impeach the president.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by jsarno

SO sn. Bush was wrong for backing out, yet GW gets blasted for not backing out?????? Do dems even have a clue what they really want?

(I'm not deflecting the blame, I say Clinton sucked, and Bush had to clean up the mess...that's not deflection, that's Bush stepping up to the plate.)

taking us into Iraq, when the united states had no business being there. whose mess is he cleaning up? maybe his old mans. for some strange reason, this president really doesn't understand the meaning of politics. so now we have a mess in Iran. oh, what to do? who can we blame this on? i sure for some stupid reason, that this, and any other problem, is Bill Clinton's fault. because he surely is the root of all evil. and the republicans still haven't been able to accept the fact that even they are wrong every once in a while

[Crazyhorse1]

Originally Posted by jsarno

SO sn. Bush was wrong for backing out, yet GW gets blasted for not backing out?????? Do dems even have a clue what they really want?

(I'm not deflecting the blame, I say Clinton sucked, and Bush had to clean up the mess...that's not deflection, that's Bush stepping up to the plate.)

No reputable historian blames Clinton for causing the mess that led to 911. Most hold that American foreign policy since the end of the cold war fueled it (through many presidencies). It's not helpful to oversimplify, childish even, and reflective of an emotional need to distort. The metaphor of Bush stepping up to the place is also of such making. Bush might be said that Bush stepped up to the plate in regard to Afghanistan and Osama at first is appropriate, but to let the methaphor also seemingly apply to the attack on Iraq is a ludicrous disservice to the truth. You apparently actually believe that Iraq aided in the 911 attack and/or had terrorists conducting anti-American activities, as well-- even thought absolutely neither of the above has ever been shown to be even remotely true.
Try to let this sink in. Bush and Chaney are liars and deliberately mislead the public and Congress in relation to WMD's and Iraq's involvement in 911.
There's already half a library on the subject, as well as numerous witnesses. That is the way reputable scholars and historians see the matter now, and that is the way they'll see it in the future.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by dmek25

oh, how easy it is to deflect the blame. is that also like saying if senior Bush would have finished what he started in Iraq, 3000 American soldiers would still be alive? and correct me if im wrong, but during Bill Clintons tenure, the republicans controlled congress. they could have done pretty much what they wanted. how is that , tit for tat?

Yes, Congress is the only branch of Government that can declare war, however Clinton was still the Commander In Chief.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Did anyone catch the interesting debate between the Dem. Prez. candidates at Howard? I found it interesting that they all condemned the Bush administration for unilaterally intervening in Iraq and staying there despite the civil war between rival factions. Then, in response to the next question about Sudan, they all said we should intervene in Darfur even if we have to do it unilaterally (as China would veto any UN resolution authorizing force) in a conflict marred by civil strife between rival factions.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Did anyone catch the interesting debate between the Dem. Prez. candidates at Howard? I found it interesting that they all condemned the Bush administration for unilaterally intervening in Iraq and staying there despite the civil war between rival factions. Then, in response to the next question about Sudan, they all said we should intervene in Darfur even if we have to do it unilaterally (as China would veto any UN resolution authorizing force) in a conflict marred by civil strife between rival factions.

Yeah, I thought that was pretty interesting. I'm trying to find a full transcript of the debate

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Did anyone catch the interesting debate between the Dem. Prez. candidates at Howard? I found it interesting that they all condemned the Bush administration for unilaterally intervening in Iraq and staying there despite the civil war between rival factions. Then, in response to the next question about Sudan, they all said we should intervene in Darfur even if we have to do it unilaterally (as China would veto any UN resolution authorizing force) in a conflict marred by civil strife between rival factions.

I was there. I think that response was interesting, however I think we're dealing with apples and oranges when we talk about Iraq and Dafur; I do get your point though. Question though, do you think we really unilaterally intervened in Iraq?

[GusFrerotte]

Tell that to us folks in Detroit Smooty,

14% and holding up here in the Big D, and it is almost just as bad in Cleveland. The rust belt is the future of America. The big beef I have with the low unemployment rate, is how many of those jobs are really worth having or in other words a living wage? Most jobs being "created" are still largely service jobs with waitresses, bartenders, store attendants leading the way. The best jobs are being outsourced, shoot even the Feds are outsourcing now. Having a BA or BS and above and being stuck working full time as a waiter/waitress/busboy isn't too cool if you have college loans to pay off. Besides, the perfect economic storm is brewing up for us as a result of disasterous Federal Reserve policies and our ungodly debt. It is not a matter of if, but when when the next great Depression and hyperinflation will take its toll. Bush has spent us into oblvion and now we have to rely on advesaries to keep us afloat by buying up US treasury bonds. Now we have a dumb war, that will cost us probably a trillion $$$$$$ before we get the hell out, if we get out. Don't even get me started on immigration.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Tell that to us folks in Detroit Smooty,

14% and holding up here in the Big D, and it is almost just as bad in Cleveland. The rust belt is the future of America. The big beef I have with the low unemployment rate, is how many of those jobs are really worth having or in other words a living wage? Most jobs being "created" are still largely service jobs with waitresses, bartenders, store attendants leading the way. The best jobs are being outsourced, shoot even the Feds are outsourcing now. Having a BA or BS and above and being stuck working full time as a waiter/waitress/busboy isn't too cool if you have college loans to pay off. Besides, the perfect economic storm is brewing up for us as a result of disasterous Federal Reserve policies and our ungodly debt. It is not a matter of if, but when when the next great Depression and hyperinflation will take its toll. Bush has spent us into oblvion and now we have to rely on advesaries to keep us afloat by buying up US treasury bonds. Now we have a dumb war, that will cost us probably a trillion $$$$$$ before we get the hell out, if we get out. Don't even get me started on immigration.

Fair points. But then are you saying better to be unemployed than to have some semblance of a steady income and be a part of the workforce?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Tell that to us folks in Detroit Smooty,

14% and holding up here in the Big D, and it is almost just as bad in Cleveland. The rust belt is the future of America. The big beef I have with the low unemployment rate, is how many of those jobs are really worth having or in other words a living wage? Most jobs being "created" are still largely service jobs with waitresses, bartenders, store attendants leading the way. The best jobs are being outsourced, shoot even the Feds are outsourcing now. Having a BA or BS and above and being stuck working full time as a waiter/waitress/busboy isn't too cool if you have college loans to pay off. Besides, the perfect economic storm is brewing up for us as a result of disasterous Federal Reserve policies and our ungodly debt. It is not a matter of if, but when when the next great Depression and hyperinflation will take its toll. Bush has spent us into oblvion and now we have to rely on advesaries to keep us afloat by buying up US treasury bonds. Now we have a dumb war, that will cost us probably a trillion $$$$$$ before we get the hell out, if we get out. Don't even get me started on immigration.

Go around your house and look where the stuff (you purchased) is made. I'll bet most is from overseas but we blame corps. for all the outsourcing when we as Americans have been doing this for years.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Tell that to us folks in Detroit Smooty,

14% and holding up here in the Big D, and it is almost just as bad in Cleveland. The rust belt is the future of America. The big beef I have with the low unemployment rate, is how many of those jobs are really worth having or in other words a living wage? Most jobs being "created" are still largely service jobs with waitresses, bartenders, store attendants leading the way. The best jobs are being outsourced, shoot even the Feds are outsourcing now. Having a BA or BS and above and being stuck working full time as a waiter/waitress/busboy isn't too cool if you have college loans to pay off. Besides, the perfect economic storm is brewing up for us as a result of disasterous Federal Reserve policies and our ungodly debt. It is not a matter of if, but when when the next great Depression and hyperinflation will take its toll. Bush has spent us into oblvion and now we have to rely on advesaries to keep us afloat by buying up US treasury bonds. Now we have a dumb war, that will cost us probably a trillion $$$$$$ before we get the hell out, if we get out. Don't even get me started on immigration.

The future of Detroit is in Detroit. The future of America is in Pheonix and Dallas and Atlanta and Washington D.C. People in the old factory areas have been singing this tune for years. Literally. Allentown came out in 1982. Those days are long gone. It's sink or swim on your own now. Nobody owes anybody anything.

[Crazyhorse1]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

The future of Detroit is in Detroit. The future of America is in Pheonix and Dallas and Atlanta and Washington D.C. People in the old factory areas have been singing this tune for years. Literally. Allentown came out in 1982. Those days are long gone. It's sink or swim on your own now. Nobody owes anybody anything.

Tell that to your parents, your teachers, our military, our cops, firemen, and dedicated people of conscience who serve your needs everyday without gitting zip for their services.

[dmek25]

i contribute the low unemployment rate to people running out of extensions. therefore they are no longer getting help, and fall off the books. instead of looking at the number of people getting assistance, the should count the actual number of people NOT working

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by dmek25

i contribute the low unemployment rate to people running out of extensions. therefore they are no longer getting help, and fall off the books. instead of looking at the number of people getting assistance, the should count the actual number of people NOT working

They tried counting the people not working and the people were to lazy to fill out the paper work if it was not for some type financial aid.

[Crazyhorse1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

They tried counting the people not working and the people were to lazy to fill out the paper work if it was not for some type financial aid.

You're completely right, of course. Poor people who have no jobs or money are just lazy bums for not popping into cabs and going to a government office to fill out forms they don't know exist for no reason.

[dmek25]

whatever happened to all for one and one for all? i don't like the way politics are. its ok to give Exxon million dollar tax breaks, while the gap between the rich and the poor keeps on widening. in our lifetime there will be no more middle class. i take it 70 that you are doing alright. im glad for you