Let's impeach the president.

[MTK]

Looking back what a freaking debacle that Clinton thing was. I can't imagine the amount of money that was wasted on that which hunt, errrrrrrrrr I mean investigation.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Looking back what a freaking debacle that Clinton thing was. I can't imagine the amount of money that was wasted on that which hunt, errrrrrrrrr I mean investigation.

I agree a lot of money was spent on the investigation but how many people ended up in jail? This is the same goverment that some want to run our health care.

[Crazyhorse1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I agree a lot of money was spent on the investigation but how many people ended up in jail? This is the same goverment that some want to run our health care.

So, you'd rather insurance companies run health care. On the other hand, maybe you want the free market to run health care, so you could die without treatment if you couldn't afford the payment.

Be careful what you wish for.

[SmootSmack]

So Crazyhorse, you're what like 65 years old or something right? You lived through our involvement in Korea, the spread of communism, Vietnam, the Soviet-Afghanistan war, Kosovo, etc. How are things different now-with our involvement in other country's affairs-than they were 10, 20, 50 years ago?

[Crazyhorse1]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

So Crazyhorse, you're what like 65 years old or something right? You lived through our involvement in Korea, the spread of communism, Vietnam, the Soviet-Afghanistan war, Kosovo, etc. How are things different now-with our involvement in other country's affairs-than they were 10, 20, 50 years ago?

I think the current war is very much like Nam-- a bogus threat, hidden agendas, scurilous behaviour by the CIA, suppressed documents, fear mongering, charges of anti-Americanism, wide-spread lying by the U.S. Government, nationwide calls for impeachment, victimization of and unfair treatment of U.S. soldiers by our government, violations of the Geneva Conventions, and massive numbers of citizens trying to justify war crimes because of their own irrational fears (an indication of cowardice.)

I was a little young to know much about Korea but chiefly remember the worship of McArthur, which I now recognize to have been almost sad in relation to a people's need of a charasmatic leader. Otherwise, the war seems to me now to have been forced upon us, to have been necessary, moral, relatively free of political deception and military misbehavior. I consider the U.S. to have acquitted itself very well in relation to the Korea War.
I was an infant during most of World War II, and don't see how we could have done much better. Our sacrifice was great and for a great cause. War is vile, of course, and produces vile behavior and general insanity, but I still think we did well, considering. In relation to the Soviet-Afghan war, I think our policy was sound , our behavior commendable and the after-effects (the end of the cold war) were extremely desirable. I applaud Clinton for Kosovo and the first President Bush for Desert Storm and restraint. If I had been Clinton, we would have interceded in Rwanda and I'm ashamed we didn't as I am ashamed now that we haven't interceded in Darfur.
That's essentially my take:
Bad to atrocious: Nam, the current war in Iraq, Rwanda, Darfur
Good to Great: Soviet-Afghan, Desert Storm, Korea, Kosovo, World War II.

Thanks for asking.

[hooskins]

Those lies about Iraq have cost us lives. Did Clinton cost us lives by getting head? I don't think so.

[FRPLG]

Impeached means he was charged by the House. Impeachment has nothing to do with whether the person charged is found guilty. So yes Clinton WAS impeachedecause he was charged by the House.

[Schneed10]

Thread hell.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

I think it all depends on what the definition of 'is' is...

[ArtMonkDrillz]

So why exactly did we go to war with Iraq?

[12thMan]

You guys were right. Being impeached and being convicted are two separate things. Thank you guys for Government 101.

[Daseal]

JoeRedskin, don't you find it relatively sad that it takes the media breaking a story about Americans torturing people for the armed forces to clean up their act. There shouldn't have been any torture for a story to break about, in my opinion.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Daseal

JoeRedskin, don't you find it relatively sad that it takes the media breaking a story about Americans torturing people for the armed forces to clean up their act. There shouldn't have been any torture for a story to break about, in my opinion.

Don't you think the word tortur is being thrown around pretty loosly. Talk to some of our men that have been tortured and they will tell you what real torture is. What was done was wrong but I'm not sure torture is the correct term to be used.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Don't you think the word tortur is being thrown around pretty loosly. Talk to some of our men that have been tortured and they will tell you what real torture is. What was done was wrong but I'm not sure torture is the correct term to be used.

You want to re-classify torture? How about we call it "Humane Torture" or better yet "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques?"

For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.

...UN CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE
and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading
Treatment or Punishment

No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind.

...Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Don't you think the word tortur is being thrown around pretty loosly. Talk to some of our men that have been tortured and they will tell you what real torture is. What was done was wrong but I'm not sure torture is the correct term to be used.

Who would stand up the best to physical torture among the current political figures? We know McCain has walked the walk. He held up magnificently yet still feels guilt about what he did. That's hard core.

I think Cheney would be a tough nut to crack but would probably have a heart attack very quickly.

Hillary might be the meanest of all. I bet you would have to really go beyond the pale to get her to break. She would be spitting and cursing at you as you turned the handle.

Mike Huckabee was a Baptist Minister so he is no stranger to discomfort. I think he would do well. The government made a study of Korean POWs and found that Fundamentalist Christians were among the best at withstanding torture. They have to be if you think about it.

Al Gore would, IMO, talk immediately. Ditto John Edwards. Mitt Romney. President Bush.

Bill Clinton would talk immediately but nothing he said would be true. He'd have his interrogators eating out of the palm of his hand, backslapping and laughing, all with fantastic lies.