Let's impeach the president.

[Daseal]

I think what crazyhorse was referring to was the laughable hypocrisy this brings. We're allowed to hold all sorts of people without charges then get upset when someone does it to us? Sorry, doesn't work like that. If we don't play by the rules we shouldn't expect other countries to do it for us.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I think what crazyhorse was referring to was the laughable hypocrisy this brings. We're allowed to hold all sorts of people without charges then get upset when someone does it to us? Sorry, doesn't work like that. If we don't play by the rules we shouldn't expect other countries to do it for us.

Exactly, I think he was simply pointing out the hypocrisy within the administration.

That being said, there is talk the Chair of House Judiciary Committee is going to start stirring a debate, more or less, to impeach Bush.

I highly doubt that it will get off the ground, however.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Exactly, I think he was simply pointing out the hypocrisy within the administration.

That being said, there is talk the Chair of House Judiciary Committee is going to start stirring a debate, more or less, to impeach Bush.

I highly doubt that it will get off the ground, however.

This past weekend, I spoke to a former captain who was responsible for the prison system in Baghdad after the Abu Gharaib fiasco. He said that, after AG, the Americans basically cleaned up their act and that his main job was protecting Iraqi prisoners from their Iraqi keepers. The Iraqi had hidden jails, (essentially unventilated, unsanitary warehouses - nothing like what we would consider a prison) in which Iraqis tortured and killed their detainees. The biggest problem he had with his men was that they consistently intervened between the Iraqi "lawful authority" and the detainees in order to save the detainees lives.

My point is that the Iraqi's and us have completely different ideas on what constitutes the rule of law. Human rights apply only to those of your sect b/c only they are human.

While on its face the statement seems hypocritical, in fact, it is not given the vast differences between Iraqi "justice" and American justice.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

This past weekend, I spoke to a former captain who was responsible for the prison system in Baghdad after the Abu Gharaib fiasco. He said that, after AG, the Americans basically cleaned up their act and that his main job was protecting Iraqi prisoners from their Iraqi keepers. The Iraqi had hidden jails, (essentially unventilated, unsanitary warehouses - nothing like what we would consider a prison) in which Iraqis tortured and killed their detainees. The biggest problem he had with his men was that they consistently intervened between the Iraqi "lawful authority" and the detainees in order to save the detainees lives.

My point is that the Iraqi's and us have completely different ideas on what constitutes the rule of law. Human rights apply only to those of your sect b/c only they are human.

While on its face the statement seems hypocritical, in fact, it is not given the vast differences between Iraqi "justice" and American justice.

The whole AG thing was/is ugly. Heads are still rolling over that, and many are still calling for Gonzales to step down over this.

In the end, I just hope that we can somehow be restored back to the international community when it comes to matters of foreign policy.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

The whole AG thing was/is ugly. Heads are still rolling over that, and many are still calling for Gonzales to step down over this.

In the end, I just hope that we can somehow be restored back to the international community when comes to matters of foreign policy.

What did Gonzales have to do with AG?

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

What did Gonzales have to do with AG?

Basically Gonzales wrote a very controversial memo that some believe had to do with the torture techniques used at AG. This is why his confirmation drew so much critism. That along with the latest on the firings of these U.S. Attorneys is just more egg on the face of this Administration.

Here are a couple of links.

Does the Right Remember Abu Ghraib? (washingtonpost.com)

NPR : Ghosts of Abu Ghraib May Haunt Gonzales Hearing

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Basically Gonzales wrote a very controversial memo that some believe had to do with the torture techniques used at AG. This is why his confirmation drew so much critism. That along with the latest on the firings of these U.S. Attorneys is just more egg on the face of this Administration.

Here are a couple of links.

Does the Right Remember Abu Ghraib? (washingtonpost.com)

NPR : Ghosts of Abu Ghraib May Haunt Gonzales Hearing

You mean the US Attorneys that the President can fire anytime that he wants to and other presidents have done the same thing. The problem is that Bush should have just come out and said I decided to fire them so that what I did. End of story. The Washington post has done so many stories on Abu Ghraib you would have thought that we were breaking their arms, cutting off fingers, shocking them and all of that bad stuff. Ok, we had a few people do some dumb stuff but that should be the end of the story. What torture techniques that we are using that are so bad Depriving them of sleep, dripping water in their face?

[Crazyhorse1]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

This past weekend, I spoke to a former captain who was responsible for the prison system in Baghdad after the Abu Gharaib fiasco. He said that, after AG, the Americans basically cleaned up their act and that his main job was protecting Iraqi prisoners from their Iraqi keepers. The Iraqi had hidden jails, (essentially unventilated, unsanitary warehouses - nothing like what we would consider a prison) in which Iraqis tortured and killed their detainees. The biggest problem he had with his men was that they consistently intervened between the Iraqi "lawful authority" and the detainees in order to save the detainees lives.

My point is that the Iraqi's and us have completely different ideas on what constitutes the rule of law. Human rights apply only to those of your sect b/c only they are human.

While on its face the statement seems hypocritical, in fact, it is not given the vast differences between Iraqi "justice" and American justice.

Bush is still torturing people in Gitmo and in so called secret prisons. He also ships people to Cairo and other places where they can be tortured and/or killed. It's call "rendition."

He also bombed and killed over 50 thousand children with bombs, including cluster bombs, which are banned internationally because they are particularly dangerous to children, sometimes for long after they are dropped.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Crazyhorse1

Bush is still torturing people in Gitmo and in so called secret prisons. He also ships people to Cairo and other places where they can be tortured and/or killed. It's call "rendition."

He also bombed and killed over 50 thousand children with bombs, including cluster bombs, which are banned internationally because they are particularly dangerous to children, sometimes for long after they are dropped.

War ain't pretty. He's not the first Commander-in-Chief to order bombing attacks, many of which leave behind innocent victims.

By the way, I "love" how you keep saying Bush is torturing, as if he personally is the one going down there.

[Crazyhorse1]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

War ain't pretty. He's not the first Commander-in-Chief to order bombing attacks, many of which leave behind innocent victims.

By the way, I "love" how you keep saying Bush is torturing, as if he personally is the one going down there.

Our torture policy is Bush's torture policy. Cluster bombs are internationally banned because of their special danger to children. It is a war crime to use them. Bush has used cluster bombs in Iraq knowing this and also knowing that Iraq is no threat to us. Truman wiped out people with nuclear bombs, but Japan was a danger to us and it can be argued that the bombs saved lives by ending the war quickly. Also, at the time Truman hit Japan we had not yet created the Geneva Conventions and signed them. Bush's continued bombing of civilian populations after the capture of Saddam was not only heartless and illegal but helped turn the Iraqis and the world against us.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by Crazyhorse1

Our torture policy is Bush's torture policy. Cluster bombs are internationally banned because of their special danger to children. It is a war crime to use them. Bush has used cluster bombs in Iraq knowing this and also knowing that Iraq is no threat to us. Truman wiped out people with nuclear bombs, but Japan was a danger to us and it can be argued that the bombs saved lives by ending the war quickly. Also, at the time Truman hit Japan we had not yet created the Geneva Conventions and signed them. Bush's continued bombing of civilian populations after the capture of Saddam was not only heartless and illegal but helped turn the Iraqis and the world against us.

Geneva Conventions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Crazyhorse1

Our torture policy is Bush's torture policy. Cluster bombs are internationally banned because of their special danger to children. It is a war crime to use them. Bush has used cluster bombs in Iraq knowing this and also knowing that Iraq is no threat to us. Truman wiped out people with nuclear bombs, but Japan was a danger to us and it can be argued that the bombs saved lives by ending the war quickly. Also, at the time Truman hit Japan we had not yet created the Geneva Conventions and signed them. Bush's continued bombing of civilian populations after the capture of Saddam was not only heartless and illegal but helped turn the Iraqis and the world against us.

So I guess Clinton is a war criminal since he ordered the armed forces to attack Kosovo with cluster bombs and DU-shells?

[70Chip]

Here's a good debate related to this topic:

YouTube - Noam Chomsky vs. William F. Buckley Debate : Part 1 of 2