Joyner: Reed, Taylor Overrated from Coverage Standpoint

[Master4Caster]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

From the article

Sean Taylor

Taylor made the Pro Bowl as an injury replacement, but the metrics make it clear he didn't earn the spot. He ranked 20th in both deep assist YPA and deep assist success percentage. He did even worse when in direct coverage, as his 10.7 YPA in those situations was the seventh worst in the NFL last year. He also gave up the second-most total yards of any coverage safety. Taylor did do a lot more to support the run last year than he did in years past, but even taking that into account, he really wasn't a Pro Bowl-level coverage safety last year.

Yeah, well ....

The whole defense sucked last year. You could find stats about every individual player. I got the impression that ST was trying to do too much to cover for breakdowns elsewhere in the secondary.

So here's the question. Conventional wisdom says a good pass rush helps the pass coverage. Our coaches say better coverage will lead to better pass rushing. They drafted LaRon Landry and have a lot of cornerbacks in camp, but no big moves on the d-line. Gre-double-GG is moving to Cover-1 to exploit Taylors pass covering abilities with Landry/Prioleau supporting the run & short passes.

Think it will work?

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

From the article

Sean Taylor

Taylor made the Pro Bowl as an injury replacement, but the metrics make it clear he didn't earn the spot. He ranked 20th in both deep assist YPA and deep assist success percentage. He did even worse when in direct coverage, as his 10.7 YPA in those situations was the seventh worst in the NFL last year. He also gave up the second-most total yards of any coverage safety. Taylor did do a lot more to support the run last year than he did in years past, but even taking that into account, he really wasn't a Pro Bowl-level coverage safety last year.

and his DLine was one of the worst ever, his LB crew was trash and his 2ndary was garbage... lots of injuries and AA/wright/rodgers/etc on the field. not good times.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I don't think it was him so much as it was the team around him last year. Obviously his first two years in the league he was good to great, then the entire team goes down the drain...

[RMSkins]

I guess Joyner has no clue who John Lynch is, the most overrated safety in the leauge besides Roy Williams. How in the world does Joyner get away with putting Ed Reed, and Sean Taylor in the overrated list?, and forgets all about John Lynch who is the most deserving I mean this guy steals a pro bowl spot every year from a way more deserving safety just because his name is John Lynch. I will admit Lynch was a above average safety with the Bucs, but since he has been with the Broncos he has been horrendous.

[SmootSmack]

Metrics aren't going to tell you the impact of Sean Taylor missing the Tampa game two years ago, allowing Chris Simms to own the middle of the field deep and resulting in over 30 points scored by the Bucs. And possibly costing us the division title in the long run.

Metrics aren't going to tell you the impact of when Todd Pinkston (was it Pinkston?) hears Taylor's footsteps and looks the other way out of fear instead of focusing on the ball.

Metrics aren't going to tell you Sean Taylor's vision and awareness (and pure athletic ability) to run full speed, pick a ball up off a bounce and take off leading to the winning field goal in dramatic fashion.

True, there's plenty Taylor needs to improve on. But we're much better off with him on the field than without him.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Metrics aren't going to tell you the impact of Sean Taylor missing the Tampa game two years ago, allowing Chris Simms to won the middle of the field deep and resulting in over 30 points scored by the Bucs. And possibly costing us the division title in the long run.

Who cares about things like heart, leadership, the ability to inspire fear in opposing teams, and a dozen other immeasurable qualities when metrics teach us that Taylor can't play safety, Betts is as good as Portis, and Brunell is a great quarterback?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Who cares about things like heart, leadership, the ability to inspire fear in opposing teams, and a dozen other immeasurable qualities when metrics teach us that Taylor can't play safety, Betts is as good as Portis, and Brunell is a great quarterback?

Who cares about on field performance?

Me, thats who.

[SmootSmack]

Yeah...well here in America we don't use the metric system! No one says it's First and 914 centimeters.

USA! USA!

Seriously though, I'm sure you're well aware that there's a lot more to evaluate a player and his value that what a stat sheet says

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Metrics aren't going to tell you the impact of Sean Taylor missing the Tampa game two years ago, allowing Chris Simms to own the middle of the field deep and resulting in over 30 points scored by the Bucs. And possibly costing us the division title in the long run.

Actually, I think Metrics WILL tell us this. And I'm guessing they would prove your point correct.

Metrics aren't going to tell you the impact of when Todd Pinkston (was it Pinkston?) hears Taylor's footsteps and looks the other way out of fear instead of focusing on the ball.

Well, no. Todd Pinkston is no longer relevant in this league though, in no small part to this play.

Metrics aren't going to tell you Sean Taylor's vision and awareness (and pure athletic ability) to run full speed, pick a ball up off a bounce and take off leading to the winning field goal in dramatic fashion.

True, there's plenty Taylor needs to improve on. But we're much better off with him on the field than without him.

I wouldn't disagree. But the thread points out that he's probably overrated based on the fact that he played in the pro bowl last year, and I don't think theres too many of us that would disagree with that.

All the metrics do is tell how how many yards per play an opponent got when he worked on Sean Taylor. In 2006, that was a lot. We're all free to draw our own conclusions, but I personally won't lay the blame for that at the feet of anyone but #21. He needs to step it up.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by RMSkins

I guess Joyner has no clue who John Lynch is, the most overrated safety in the leauge besides Roy Williams. How in the world does Joyner get away with putting Ed Reed, and Sean Taylor in the overrated list?, and forgets all about John Lynch who is the most deserving I mean this guy steals a pro bowl spot every year from a way more deserving safety just because his name is John Lynch. I will admit Lynch was a above average safety with the Bucs, but since he has been with the Broncos he has been horrendous.

He is not a young man , but he has been the hardest hitting safety since R.Lott, and he does not get out of position very often . I would have bet the ranch , had he been our SS next to Taylor , we would have the best Safety tandem in the NFL the last few years . If Landry plays at a high level early , and we get a pass rush , Taylor will be a top 3 - 5 safety .

[BigSKINBauer]

^^^ Very true. One of the first moments we could see what sean meant to us was when we played green bay his rookie season and he was to sit out due to his DUI charge. That game we got destroyed downfield relative to our other games that year. His absense leads to the team not working. He does so much that it hard to realize for some people unless he is off the field.

I still hurt from that stupid illegal motion call the ref made. F...ing idiot. The refs had it out for us that year and the year after too.

[freddyg12]

I get sick of people always singling out db's who get beat a few times, especially safeties. The safety's job is to get there, not cover man to man. Of course they're going to bite on fakes or pursue the wrong area of the field sometimes. That doesn't make them poor in coverage. Even Roy Williams; yes coverage is not his strong point, but at least give him credit for making some big plays in coverage, e.g. he picked 1 against us last year at about the 2 yrd. line, which pretty much ended our chances to get in the game. He also took one back against philly in 05 to win a game.

I will agree w/the overall assessment of Taylor for last year though. He tried to make too many plays & ended up late on deep throws. He CAN cover though, he's just got to commit to that aspect of his game & accept the responsibility as the last man to beat on the field.

[MTK]

Taylor had a bad year last year, just like the entire D. I don't think we needed an expert to tell us that.

I wonder what his metrics looked like in prior years though.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Taylor had a bad year last year, just like the entire D. I don't think we needed an expert to tell us that.

I wonder what his metrics looked like in prior years though.

Exactly what I was thinking. 2006 Sean Taylor was not the same Sean Taylor that we all saw in 2005. I also thought his play in the Pro Bowl (not just the hit on the kicker, but his overall play) suggested what he is capable of given a competent supporting cast.

[Skins_4_Lyfe]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

...I also thought his play in the Pro Bowl (not just the hit on the kicker, but his overall play) suggested what he is capable of given a competent supporting cast.

I noticed that too, perhaps it's GW's overrated scheme that is holding him back, just as it did Walt Harris.