Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Jeez I'd like to think human life is a little more valuable than a car.

I think you missed my point here. Point is, you are wanting to FORCE doctors that worked damn hard to get where they are to give you free health care. That's not right.
What do you do Matty? Imagine someone saying that you now are owned by the government and you need to do what they say.
Doctors don't go through many years of intense training and hundreds of thousands of dollars in education to be owned by the government.

I believe everyone should be entitled to health care. I don't know where we got lost along the way, but the basics of helping your fellow man and caring for those less fortunate somehow got twisted into being things that have a price on them. I think that's sad... and when doctors have to make decisions based on financial considerations, I think that's where the conflict of interest comes into play.

It's gone away cause there are SOOOOO many people willing to sit around and be lazy and take your money and my money. You are offered insurance at most places of employment...so why is it this is such a huge issue?

[BigSKINBauer]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I think you missed my point here. Point is, you are wanting to FORCE doctors that worked damn hard to get where they are to give you free health care. That's not right.
What do you do Matty? Imagine someone saying that you now are owned by the government and you need to do what they say.
Doctors don't go through many years of intense training and hundreds of thousands of dollars in education to be owned by the government.



It's gone away cause there are SOOOOO many people willing to sit around and be lazy and take your money and my money. You are offered insurance at most places of employment...so why is it this is such a huge issue?

Very true but what about the children that are uninsured? I mean 10 million children go without it. What blame is that to them? This country is about the american dream and building your own way but the truth is the poor are so much more disadvantaged. I feel at the very least children under 18 deserve health care.

Also i don't know how it would work but if the employers have built in plans that they spend money on, maybe corporations should be taxed more and that tax would go toward a nationalized health care system. Or companies transfer their savings to their employees. I don't know if that would work but they are saving and they will be able to pay their employees more and the market would adjust. Hopefully with regulation(and yes, doctors not being paid 300,000- which may not be fair) the total price on the health care system will go down.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by BigSKINBauer

Very true but what about the children that are uninsured? I mean 10 million children go without it. What blame is that to them? This country is about the american dream and building your own way but the truth is the poor are so much more disadvantaged. I feel at the very least children under 18 deserve health care.

That's called Medicaid.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

That's called Medicaid.

And that's a good thing to you??

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

And that's a good thing to you??

Is it not paid by me and you? Is it not free?
Medicaid is EXCELLENT for some poeple, and a lot of kids.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Is it not paid by me and you? Is it not free?
Medicaid is EXCELLENT for some poeple, and a lot of kids.

Medicaid has plenty of holes in it and needs reform, it's far from being "excellent"

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Medicaid has plenty of holes in it and needs reform, it's far from being "excellent"

Hold on...I didn't say it didn't have "holes" because some people that need it can't get it. However, when someone does get on it, it is excellent. That was my point.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I think you missed my point here. Point is, you are wanting to FORCE doctors that worked damn hard to get where they are to give you free health care. That's not right.
What do you do Matty? Imagine someone saying that you now are owned by the government and you need to do what they say.
Doctors don't go through many years of intense training and hundreds of thousands of dollars in education to be owned by the government.



It's gone away cause there are SOOOOO many people willing to sit around and be lazy and take your money and my money. You are offered insurance at most places of employment...so why is it this is such a huge issue?

Doctors would still be paid under a universal system, just maybe not as much as they are now. I guess some might have to give up their summer homes or their 2nd or 3rd beemer, but I'm sure they could adjust to such peasant living.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Doctors would still be paid under a universal system, just maybe not as much as they are now. I guess some might have to give up their summer homes or their 2nd or 3rd beemer, but I'm sure they could adjust to such peasant living.

See, this is where I have a problem with this idea. Cause people assume cause Doctors (or any wealthy person) have money they should be ok to all of sudden be parted from their money. It's not right. They worked hard...harder than ANY of us here on this site. I busted my ass for an MBA in Finance, and I didn't even do a fraction of the work that Doctors do to get where they are. They deserve those 2nd or 3rd beamers, and the summer homes. They worked for it. I will never agree to taking money from hard working people. This is why I have fundamental issues with democrats.

So how about this...train the guys that are flipping your burgers right now to become doctors, then it will be OK to pay them subpar doctor salaries, and then all the people that "needed" health care that didn't have it can go to the ex burger flippers. That way you're not hurting current doctors, and your giving the little man a chance at making it big.
Just out of curiousity, how many of you want the ex burger flipper performing surgery on you?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

See, this is where I have a problem with this idea. Cause people assume cause Doctors (or any wealthy person) have money they should be ok to all of sudden be parted from their money. It's not right. They worked hard...harder than ANY of us here on this site. I busted my ass for an MBA in Finance, and I didn't even do a fraction of the work that Doctors do to get where they are. They deserve those 2nd or 3rd beamers, and the summer homes. They worked for it. I will never agree to taking money from hard working people. This is why I have fundamental issues with democrats.

So how about this...train the guys that are flipping your burgers right now to become doctors, then it will be OK to pay them subpar doctor salaries, and then all the people that "needed" health care that didn't have it can go to the ex burger flippers. That way you're not hurting current doctors, and your giving the little man a chance at making it big.
Just out of curiousity, how many of you want the ex burger flipper performing surgery on you?

So while someone "deserves" a summer home and 2-3 luxury cars, that means on the flipside somebody else "deserves" to be homeless and without health care?

Personally I don't think things need to be so lopsided. I would think one home and one luxury car would be enough. If these people need such excessive luxuries, what is their true motivation for even being a doctor??

What would a subpar doctor salary even be?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

So while someone "deserves" a summer home and 2-3 luxury cars, that means on the flipside somebody else "deserves" to be homeless and without health care?

100% YES. In my scenario, that doctor worked his ass off, and being a doctor is freakin tough! Yes, he does deserve all the good things he gets.
On the flip side, the dumbass that isn't willing to work deserves to be homeless and without health care cause that's the lifestyle HE CHOSE!!! It is amazing to me that people want to give honest hardworking mans money away and give it to people that don't give a shit. That astounds me.

Personally I don't think things need to be so lopsided. I would think one home and one luxury car would be enough.

It's 100% none of your business what they do with their HARD EARNED money.
This statement is not always true, but is more true more often than not:
Those that have money have worked harder and smarter than those that have not.

If these people need such excessive luxuries, what is their true motivation for even being a doctor??

Who says they NEED it? They deserve it for hard work.
How about this, I think in order for your ideas to work, you need to work 10 more hours a week for free, and you have to donate every hour of vacation time to those "less fortunate" (as you put it). If you did that, there would be no need for the extra healthcare needed to cover everyone.

ps- not all doctors are abnormally wealthy...fyi.

What would a subpar doctor salary even be?

Well, in my scenario, I wouldn't go to the ex-burger flipper...but let's call it 40-50k.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

100% YES. In my scenario, that doctor worked his ass off, and being a doctor is freakin tough! Yes, he does deserve all the good things he gets.
On the flip side, the dumbass that isn't willing to work deserves to be homeless and without health care cause that's the lifestyle HE CHOSE!!! It is amazing to me that people want to give honest hardworking mans money away and give it to people that don't give a shit. That astounds me.



It's 100% none of your business what they do with their HARD EARNED money.
This statement is not always true, but is more true more often than not:
Those that have money have worked harder and smarter than those that have not.



Who says they NEED it? They deserve it for hard work.
How about this, I think in order for your ideas to work, you need to work 10 more hours a week for free, and you have to donate every hour of vacation time to those "less fortunate" (as you put it). If you did that, there would be no need for the extra healthcare needed to cover everyone.

ps- not all doctors are abnormally wealthy...fyi.



Well, in my scenario, I wouldn't go to the ex-burger flipper...but let's call it 40-50k.

I actually think it's sad that you don't seem to have much pity for those that are less fortunate, and you assume that people that are homeless are homeless because of personal choice, they're dumbasses, and don't give a shit.

Sad.

[dblanch66]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I actually think it's sad that you don't seem to have much pity for those that are less fortunate, and you assume that people that are homeless are homeless because of personal choice, they're dumbasses, and don't give a shit.

Sad.

Well, everyone knows that the folks in New Orleans should've jumped in their SUV's and driven to their summer homes (as suggested by Barbara Bush).
Poor people ALL deserve what they get, right JSarno and SBF? Mother Teresa, Ghandi, Jesus...PUSHOVERS! HA!
BLEEDING HEARTS...HA!
"SCREW THE POOR!! THEY DESERVE THEIR MISFORTUNE!"
Now..pass me that Beluga, James.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I actually think it's sad that you don't seem to have much pity for those that are less fortunate, and you assume that people that are homeless are homeless because of personal choice, they're dumbasses, and don't give a shit.

Sad.

Well, I just feel that everything in your life, you attracted somehow. Whether be from laziness, or no sense of urgency, or lack of self responsibility, which would describe 99% of all people on assistance.
I would be more than happy to help someone that had a completely random crappy issue happen to them. I would and have helped people that help themselves. I refuse to help people that have a hand out and are unwilling to help themselves and live like there are no repercussions.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I actually think it's sad that you don't seem to have much pity for those that are less fortunate, and you assume that people that are homeless are homeless because of personal choice, they're dumbasses, and don't give a shit.

Sad.

You might be surprised to find out how many homeless people are there by personal choice or because of personal choices. I would think that drugs and alcohol are responsible for about 75% of homeless cases. The remainder being largely mentally ill (you can't force people to stay in mental hospitals since the 1970's, which is oddly when homelessness emerged). There are very few people in this country who are sane, willing to work and who don't have a place to live. It's very rare. Think about it. You would have to lose your job, have no family, have no friends, have no church, and on and on and on.

You can feel pity for someone and understand that it's their own fault at the same time. The two are not really related.