Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

See, this is where I have a problem with this idea. Cause people assume cause Doctors (or any wealthy person) have money they should be ok to all of sudden be parted from their money. It's not right. They worked hard...harder than ANY of us here on this site. I busted my ass for an MBA in Finance, and I didn't even do a fraction of the work that Doctors do to get where they are. They deserve those 2nd or 3rd beamers, and the summer homes. They worked for it. I will never agree to taking money from hard working people. This is why I have fundamental issues with democrats.

So how about this...train the guys that are flipping your burgers right now to become doctors, then it will be OK to pay them subpar doctor salaries, and then all the people that "needed" health care that didn't have it can go to the ex burger flippers. That way you're not hurting current doctors, and your giving the little man a chance at making it big.
Just out of curiousity, how many of you want the ex burger flipper performing surgery on you?

So while someone "deserves" a summer home and 2-3 luxury cars, that means on the flipside somebody else "deserves" to be homeless and without health care?

Personally I don't think things need to be so lopsided. I would think one home and one luxury car would be enough. If these people need such excessive luxuries, what is their true motivation for even being a doctor??

What would a subpar doctor salary even be?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

So while someone "deserves" a summer home and 2-3 luxury cars, that means on the flipside somebody else "deserves" to be homeless and without health care?

100% YES. In my scenario, that doctor worked his ass off, and being a doctor is freakin tough! Yes, he does deserve all the good things he gets.
On the flip side, the dumbass that isn't willing to work deserves to be homeless and without health care cause that's the lifestyle HE CHOSE!!! It is amazing to me that people want to give honest hardworking mans money away and give it to people that don't give a shit. That astounds me.

Personally I don't think things need to be so lopsided. I would think one home and one luxury car would be enough.

It's 100% none of your business what they do with their HARD EARNED money.
This statement is not always true, but is more true more often than not:
Those that have money have worked harder and smarter than those that have not.

If these people need such excessive luxuries, what is their true motivation for even being a doctor??

Who says they NEED it? They deserve it for hard work.
How about this, I think in order for your ideas to work, you need to work 10 more hours a week for free, and you have to donate every hour of vacation time to those "less fortunate" (as you put it). If you did that, there would be no need for the extra healthcare needed to cover everyone.

ps- not all doctors are abnormally wealthy...fyi.

What would a subpar doctor salary even be?

Well, in my scenario, I wouldn't go to the ex-burger flipper...but let's call it 40-50k.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

100% YES. In my scenario, that doctor worked his ass off, and being a doctor is freakin tough! Yes, he does deserve all the good things he gets.
On the flip side, the dumbass that isn't willing to work deserves to be homeless and without health care cause that's the lifestyle HE CHOSE!!! It is amazing to me that people want to give honest hardworking mans money away and give it to people that don't give a shit. That astounds me.



It's 100% none of your business what they do with their HARD EARNED money.
This statement is not always true, but is more true more often than not:
Those that have money have worked harder and smarter than those that have not.



Who says they NEED it? They deserve it for hard work.
How about this, I think in order for your ideas to work, you need to work 10 more hours a week for free, and you have to donate every hour of vacation time to those "less fortunate" (as you put it). If you did that, there would be no need for the extra healthcare needed to cover everyone.

ps- not all doctors are abnormally wealthy...fyi.



Well, in my scenario, I wouldn't go to the ex-burger flipper...but let's call it 40-50k.

I actually think it's sad that you don't seem to have much pity for those that are less fortunate, and you assume that people that are homeless are homeless because of personal choice, they're dumbasses, and don't give a shit.

Sad.

[dblanch66]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I actually think it's sad that you don't seem to have much pity for those that are less fortunate, and you assume that people that are homeless are homeless because of personal choice, they're dumbasses, and don't give a shit.

Sad.

Well, everyone knows that the folks in New Orleans should've jumped in their SUV's and driven to their summer homes (as suggested by Barbara Bush).
Poor people ALL deserve what they get, right JSarno and SBF? Mother Teresa, Ghandi, Jesus...PUSHOVERS! HA!
BLEEDING HEARTS...HA!
"SCREW THE POOR!! THEY DESERVE THEIR MISFORTUNE!"
Now..pass me that Beluga, James.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by dblanch66

Well, everyone knows that the folks in New Orleans should've jumped in their SUV's and driven to their summer homes (as suggested by Barbara Bush).
Poor people ALL deserve what they get, right JSarno and SBF? Mother Teresa, Ghandi, Jesus...PUSHOVERS! HA!
BLEEDING HEARTS...HA!
"SCREW THE POOR!! THEY DESERVE THEIR MISFORTUNE!"
Now..pass me that Beluga, James.

LOL

classic

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by dblanch66

Well, everyone knows that the folks in New Orleans should've jumped in their SUV's and driven to their summer homes (as suggested by Barbara Bush).
Poor people ALL deserve what they get, right JSarno and SBF? Mother Teresa, Ghandi, Jesus...PUSHOVERS! HA!
BLEEDING HEARTS...HA!
"SCREW THE POOR!! THEY DESERVE THEIR MISFORTUNE!"
Now..pass me that Beluga, James.

See, you guys all let life come to you don't you? To say something like this is crazy. There are poor people that try, but the majority will get ahead eventually. You just don't want to come to the conclusion that you or certain people CHOSE their lifestyle. Don't tell me people can't change their lives for the better...they can! They just don't cause of the bleeding hearst here always willing to give a hand out.
So here's a suggestion...instead of bitching about some of us that actually care to keep our hard earned money, why don't you all get together and donate to all the lazy people...oops, I mean less fortunate.

PS- Mother teresa, ghandi and Jesus never preyed on the hard workers to live.

pps- YES, those idiot in New Orleans KNEW the Hurricane was coming...had SEVERAL DAYS of warning but they CHOSE to stay. Are you getting the common point here? They CHOSE to stay...CHOSE it. They had every opportunity to leave, but CHOSE to stay. Because you were sarcastic about their "summer homes" etc...they were all offered shelter and food at the dome as well as other places.
You know...if you're in a flood and a guy with a boat comes by to help you and you say no...then a helicopter comes to help you and you don't get on it...you deserve to drown. (that's hypothetical by the way) Don't ignore the people willing to help...they did.
When I was in Hurricane Charlie, I took my life into my own hands...I also helped others by allowing them into my buddy's apartment cause they would likely be flooded. During a time like that, the human spirit comes out and will help out...those people had ample time...even people that came around with buses to help and they turned their noses at them. Stupidity.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by jsarno

See, you guys all let life come to you don't you? To say something like this is crazy. There are poor people that try, but the majority will get ahead eventually. You just don't want to come to the conclusion that you or certain people CHOSE their lifestyle. Don't tell me people can't change their lives for the better...they can! They just don't cause of the bleeding hearst here always willing to give a hand out.
So here's a suggestion...instead of bitching about some of us that actually care to keep our hard earned money, why don't you all get together and donate to all the lazy people...oops, I mean less fortunate.

PS- Mother teresa, ghandi and Jesus never preyed on the hard workers to live.

pps- YES, those idiot in New Orleans KNEW the Hurricane was coming...had SEVERAL DAYS of warning but they CHOSE to stay. Are you getting the common point here? They CHOSE to stay...CHOSE it. They had every opportunity to leave, but CHOSE to stay. Because you were sarcastic about their "summer homes" etc...they were all offered shelter and food at the dome as well as other places. You know...if you're in a flood and a guy with a boat comes by to help you and you say no...then a helicopter comes to help you and you don't get on it...you deserve to drown. (that's hypothetical by the way) Don't ignore the people willing to help...they did.
When I was in Hurricane Charlie, I took my life into my own hands...I also helped others by allowing them into my buddy's apartment cause they would likely be flooded. During a time like that, the human spirit comes out and will help out...those people had ample time...even people that came around with buses to help and they turned their noses at them. Stupidity.

This is truly idiotic. Bush didn't even know how bad it was until two days after it happened, and he's the president. The ignorance of this argument I think really demonstrates the narrowness of your thinking on this issue. I am truly truly stunned by your lack of compassion here Jsarno, and I think even the most staunch economic conservative would likely be shook by what you are suggesting.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

This is truly idiotic. Bush didn't even know how bad it was until two days after it happened, and he's the president. The ignorance of this argument I think really demonstrates the narrowness of your thinking on this issue. I am truly truly stunned by your lack of compassion here Jsarno, and I think even the most staunch economic conservative would likely be shook by what you are suggesting.

Umm, they live 10+ feet BELOW SEA LEVEL! People all over the country were warning about this disaster years before it happened, they had 4 full days to evacuate, at worse, 2 full days. How much compassion should someone have when they aren't willing to get out of the way? Do you stand in the middle of the highway and then blame the vehicle that runs you over? Come on man...it's common sense.

I just really don't understand people that are so willing to defend idiots. (I understand that old bed ridden people perished and I do feel for that, they couldn't do anything about it) Other than that, if you have 2 feet would you not try to get out of the way of DEATH?
The fact that you are arguing that people should take their lives into their own hands by showing down a freakin hurricane is amazing. They knew the risk, they CHOSE to stay and face death.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by jsarno

pps- YES, those idiot in New Orleans KNEW the Hurricane was coming...had SEVERAL DAYS of warning but they CHOSE to stay. Are you getting the common point here? They CHOSE to stay...CHOSE it. They had every opportunity to leave, but CHOSE to stay. Because you were sarcastic about their "summer homes" etc...they were all offered shelter and food at the dome as well as other places.
You know...if you're in a flood and a guy with a boat comes by to help you and you say no...then a helicopter comes to help you and you don't get on it...you deserve to drown. (that's hypothetical by the way) Don't ignore the people willing to help...they did.
When I was in Hurricane Charlie, I took my life into my own hands...I also helped others by allowing them into my buddy's apartment cause they would likely be flooded. During a time like that, the human spirit comes out and will help out...those people had ample time...even people that came around with buses to help and they turned their noses at them. Stupidity.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about...at all. Katrina shifted when it got into the Gulf. I left the city on the Monday before it hit, I went to sleep Sunday night and they were saying it would turn and cross Fla. It didn't and they had 1 day to leave. They had put a voluntary evacuation into effect days earlier, yes, but the funniest thing happened...they lived in a city and didn't own/couldn't afford cars. Buses didn't start coming until after the Hurricane and helicopters weren't stopping until well after the city was pumped.

Also, I know a few people who "lived" in the dome...most of them haven't been right since then. They were surrounded by overflowing toilets, people jumping from high rises and other people dying because they couldn't get medication. So I think it's about time you get off of your high horse about people who can't afford some of the amenities that you do.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I actually think it's sad that you don't seem to have much pity for those that are less fortunate, and you assume that people that are homeless are homeless because of personal choice, they're dumbasses, and don't give a shit.

Sad.

Well, I just feel that everything in your life, you attracted somehow. Whether be from laziness, or no sense of urgency, or lack of self responsibility, which would describe 99% of all people on assistance.
I would be more than happy to help someone that had a completely random crappy issue happen to them. I would and have helped people that help themselves. I refuse to help people that have a hand out and are unwilling to help themselves and live like there are no repercussions.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I actually think it's sad that you don't seem to have much pity for those that are less fortunate, and you assume that people that are homeless are homeless because of personal choice, they're dumbasses, and don't give a shit.

Sad.

You might be surprised to find out how many homeless people are there by personal choice or because of personal choices. I would think that drugs and alcohol are responsible for about 75% of homeless cases. The remainder being largely mentally ill (you can't force people to stay in mental hospitals since the 1970's, which is oddly when homelessness emerged). There are very few people in this country who are sane, willing to work and who don't have a place to live. It's very rare. Think about it. You would have to lose your job, have no family, have no friends, have no church, and on and on and on.

You can feel pity for someone and understand that it's their own fault at the same time. The two are not really related.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

You might be surprised to find out how many homeless people are there by personal choice or because of personal choices. I would think that drugs and alcohol are responsible for about 75% of homeless cases. The remainder being largely mentally ill (you can't force people to stay in mental hospitals since the 1970's, which is oddly when homelessness emerged). There are very few people in this country who are sane, willing to work and who don't have a place to live. It's very rare. Think about it. You would have to lose your job, have no family, have no friends, have no church, and on and on and on.

You can feel pity for someone and understand that it's their own fault at the same time. The two are not really related.

Regardless of how or why it happens, do they still not deserve a helping hand? I guess the prevailing opinion would be they don't, considering how we treat our sick, elderly, mentally ill, and homeless in this country.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Regardless of how or why it happens, do they still not deserve a helping hand? I guess the prevailing opinion would be they don't, considering how we treat our sick, elderly, mentally ill, and homeless in this country.

I would say that most people are willing to give a helping hand to people willing to help themself. I have belong to several organizations which help in the comunity and I see so many people who are willing to receive help but are totaly unwilling to help themself. The group I belong to now has a very,very tough time finding people who are not just looking for a hand out rather than a helping hand.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I would say that most people are willing to give a helping hand to people willing to help themself. I have belong to several organizations which help in the comunity and I see so many people who are willing to receive help but are totaly unwilling to help themself. The group I belong to now has a very,very tough time finding people who are not just looking for a hand out rather than a helping hand.

Absolutely agree with that!

originally quoted by matty:

Regardless of how or why it happens, do they still not deserve a helping hand? I guess the prevailing opinion would be they don't, considering how we treat our sick, elderly, mentally ill, and homeless in this country.

I'm going to break this down cause you mentioned a lot of different scenarios.
1- "the sick". Depends on how they got sick. Did they get sick because they were having unprotected sex and didn't care? If so, then tough crap. If they got sick from just living life, then yes, I care.
2- "the Elderly." You probably wouldn't expect this from me cause you guys don't understand where I'm coming from, but you can't help but get old, and I firmly believe that the money we waste on the unwed mothers plopping out babies should go to the elderly that really can't help themselves. I donate, and offer my time to the local nursing home...shock eh? Because they actually can't help themselves when they are that old.
3- "The mentally ill". See above.
4- "The homeless". I can not think of a scenario where a homeless person didn't do that to themselves by making piss poor decisions, then getting a "poor me" attitude. They are there because of them, no one else. Self responsibility people.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Regardless of how or why it happens, do they still not deserve a helping hand? I guess the prevailing opinion would be they don't, considering how we treat our sick, elderly, mentally ill, and homeless in this country.

The point is that they have already gotten what they deserve. The question is, should we help them even though they don't deserve it? I'm inclined to answer yes, BTW.