Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by dmek25

i think its funny that it seems like you have more compassion for animals, then you do your fellow humans

That is absolutely true. Why? Cause animals don't know any better.

However, I have a ton of compassion for those humans that are just down on their luck but are giving 100% to change that around. None for the guy that thinks "poor me" with his hand out. There is a huge difference to me.

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I think my point of view stems from my belief that I KNOW that if you took every possession I won and all my money. Separated me from my family. Erased my educational history and work experience. If i had to star with totally nothing, I know I could have a job and a place to live by the end of the week. It simply isn't that hard. Again, there are many that need help and will do what is necessary to get it. These are the people we should focus on helping. It is our responsibility. But there are certainly people who simply won't do what they need to 'earn' their help. And I simply am not in favor of helping people who won't use the help to get to a point where they don't need it anymore.

FRPLG, if you have absolutely no money and no place to live, no clothes other than the ones your wearing then what landlord is going to let you rent from him without a deposit of sorts? What employer is going to hire you knowing that you don't have a physical address or phone number for him to be able to reach you? Not saying you can't do it, but I believe it will take longer than a week to get yourself settled in a residence. You almost would have to be a night time maintenance worker that is able to utilize the sinks for laundary and hygiene and find a corner to sleep in for a good while. I'm thinking 3 months and some good luck meeting a compassionate employer.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

If someone asks me for a buck and I have it, I'll give it to them. I honestly don't care what they do with it, I'm not trying to judge them, correct them or punish them.

If you saw a homeless guy with a broken arm would you offer him a job cutting your grass? I doubt it. Becuase while that may seem like help it really isn't because he can't do the job and would get nothing from it. I think what jsarno is trying to say is that sometimes what you deem as "help" isn't really helping. Human nature dictates that many people become dependent very easily. If giving them that dollar only further entrenches that sense of dependence then is it really helping?

The old saying "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime." comes to mind. Maybe instead of giving them a dollar we should focus on getting them past the rough times. That is why I want to see people who are willing to put work into fixing their lives. They gotta pull as much weight as they can. I'll help anybody who can't help themselves or those who can and try. Helping those who can and don't try isn't helping. Sometimes it is actually even hurting them more.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I think my point of view stems from my belief that I KNOW that if you took every possession I won and all my money. Separated me from my family. Erased my educational history and work experience. If i had to star with totally nothing, I know I could have a job and a place to live by the end of the week. It simply isn't that hard. Again, there are many that need help and will do what is necessary to get it. These are the people we should focus on helping. It is our responsibility. But there are certainly people who simply won't do what they need to 'earn' their help. And I simply am not in favor of helping people who won't use the help to get to a point where they don't need it anymore.

I agree...it may take a little more than a week, but I agree.
We are bread to believe that we are helpless to the things that happen to us, we are not. We are the masters of our own destiny.
If all that happened to me today, I already know of ditch digging jobs, or possibly even working at McDonalds. Work hard, and the next thing you know, you're the manager. I refuse to hear "I can't". YOU CAN.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by 724Skinsfan

FRPLG, if you have absolutely no money and no place to live, no clothes other than the ones your wearing then what landlord is going to let you rent from him without a deposit of sorts? What employer is going to hire you knowing that you don't have a physical address or phone number for him to be able to reach you? Not saying you can't do it, but I believe it will take longer than a week to get yourself settled in a residence. You almost would have to be a night time maintenance worker that is able to utilize the sinks for laundary and hygiene and find a corner to sleep in for a good while. I'm thinking 3 months and some good luck meeting a compassionate employer.

Whether it takes a week or 3 months is irrelevant to me. I know I could do it. I suspect most people here could to.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

If you saw a homeless guy with a broken arm would you offer him a job cutting your grass? I doubt it. Becuase while that may seem like help it really isn't because he can't do the job and would get nothing from it. I think what jsarno is trying to say is that sometimes what you deem as "help" isn't really helping. Human nature dictates that many people become dependent very easily. If giving them that dollar only further entrenches that sense of dependence then is it really helping?

The old saying "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime." comes to mind. Maybe instead of giving them a dollar we should focus on getting them past the rough times. That is why I want to see people who are willing to put work into fixing their lives. They gotta pull as much weight as they can. I'll help anybody who can't help themselves or those who can and try. Helping those who can and don't try isn't helping. Sometimes it is actually even hurting them more.

Wow, you get my point exactly. I tried to think of that saying too, but for some reason kept coming to: you can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink." lol.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I wanted to post this last night, but the site went down as I was typing:

This concerned me, speaking about France and Canada’s healthcare:

While patients may not pay for services at the doctor's office, they do pay high taxes to fund such a system, something Gupta said he was concerned that "Sicko" audiences might not realize.



Moore responded by saying Americans pay more in copays, deductibles and insurance premiums. "We [America] have a system built on profit," the moviemaker said.





No "WE" don't. I have a friend that lives in Saskatoon, and she said that they pay over 50% of their salary to taxes for that health care, and if it's life threatening (ie: need surgery NOW), they get put on at least a 6 month waiting list and try to come to America for the surgery instead cause they will die with the healthcare they have up there.

Fact is, there is no perfect health care system anywhere in the world.



I don't know how feasible this is, but if the government does take over, why not circumvent the insurance companies. Really, it's not greedy doctors, or frivolous lawsuits (although that does exist), it's the insurance companies raping the consumers. They are, in affect, a middle man that isn't needed.

Please give use the numbers that you have to show that the insurance companies are raping the consumers. Facts, I don't think you have them but if you do please lets us know.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Please give use the numbers that you have to show that the insurance companies are raping the consumers. Facts, I don't think you have them but if you do please lets us know.

Are you serious? You think the insurance companies are completely honest? You must either work for an insurance company, or are nieve. There have been plenty of documentations over the years of this. While I do not have numbers, I won't even search for them cause my comment is common knowledge.

I am sorry that sounds rude. After proof reading it, I thought it sounded rude. That is not my intent. I am just trying to point out that it's common knowledge.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Well, I wasn't confronted, my wife was.
It started as anger issues...that I am not denying. The fact that he didn't get knocked out shows the anger issues subsided.
I think where we differ is where you would allow someone to mistreat you or your wife, I won't. We also differ in the thought that I think by giving him money, you are making the situation worse, while you think you're "helping".

Someone saying FU to my wife wouldn't qualify as the kind of 'mistreatment' that would require me to drive back to Wal-Mart, go in the store, buy dog food, and then confront the person with the intention of humiliating them.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Are you serious? You think the insurance companies are completely honest? You must either work for an insurance company, or are nieve. There have been plenty of documentations over the years of this. While I do not have numbers, I won't even search for them cause my comment is common knowledge.

I am sorry that sounds rude. After proof reading it, I thought it sounded rude. That is not my intent. I am just trying to point out that it's common knowledge.

Insurance companies get far more bad press than they deserve in my esitimation.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Are you serious? You think the insurance companies are completely honest? You must either work for an insurance company, or are nieve. There have been plenty of documentations over the years of this. While I do not have numbers, I won't even search for them cause my comment is common knowledge.

I am sorry that sounds rude. After proof reading it, I thought it sounded rude. That is not my intent. I am just trying to point out that it's common knowledge.

I've worked for several insurance companies and I haven't seen any instances of the company outright improperly denying claims. Are there guilty insurance companies out there? Sure, but the same goes for everyone that's a part of the system. Doctors, lawyers, and claimants themselves are part of the problem at times as well. I don't think one part of the system can be pinpointed as being the sole problem.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

However, I have a ton of compassion for those humans that are just down on their luck but are giving 100% to change that around. None for the guy that thinks "poor me" with his hand out. There is a huge difference to me.

How do you go about telling the difference, or judging who's worthy of helping vs. who's not. Do you sit down and ask the person for his life story and draw the conclusion of whether he's worthy of your help or not?

Is everyone with their hand out not worth helping?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Are you serious? You think the insurance companies are completely honest? You must either work for an insurance company, or are nieve. There have been plenty of documentations over the years of this. While I do not have numbers, I won't even search for them cause my comment is common knowledge.

I am sorry that sounds rude. After proof reading it, I thought it sounded rude. That is not my intent. I am just trying to point out that it's common knowledge.

Yes, I am in the ins business and no I do not sell health ins. But the statement you made was just completly wrong so it has to be challenged. It should be easy for you to find the numbers if the ins co are raping us. Yes, I'm sure you could find a story here and a story there about something wrong an ins co. did but you said raping us. No it is not common knowledge.

[Lady Brave]

Originally Posted by 724Skinsfan

FRPLG, if you have absolutely no money and no place to live, no clothes other than the ones your wearing then what landlord is going to let you rent from him without a deposit of sorts? What employer is going to hire you knowing that you don't have a physical address or phone number for him to be able to reach you? Not saying you can't do it, but I believe it will take longer than a week to get yourself settled in a residence. You almost would have to be a night time maintenance worker that is able to utilize the sinks for laundary and hygiene and find a corner to sleep in for a good while. I'm thinking 3 months and some good luck meeting a compassionate employer.

I don't think it would be all that difficult. Illegal immigrants do it all the time.

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by Lady Brave

I don't think it would be all that difficult. Illegal immigrants do it all the time.

True enough, I suppose.