Ted Nugent on Gun Control

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by saden1

You're in essence saying:


What an absurd and fallacious argument.

No...that's not what he's saying. He's saying there is an overraction going on. You can't use the argument that it kills people. It doesn't. People kill people.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by jsarno

No...that's not what he's saying. He's saying there is an overraction going on. You can't use the argument that it kills people. It doesn't. People kill people.

Well, that's certainly the impression I got from Hog's quote. Further, I think Saden's sentiment is correct.

Saden's point (I think) is that, even though the use of each can result in death (as correctly asserted by Hog), guns, alchohol and planes pose different problems for and different types of the threats to public safety and to assert (as Hog does) that the possible solution for the threat/problem posed by guns is equally applicable to the different threats/problems posed by planes or alchohol - is illogical.

Fact is, because of the inherent danger presented by the use and/or availability of guns, they should be heavily regulated just like any other inherently dangerous machines/objects/devices.

Last I checked the private use of airplanes is heavily regulated (FAA anybody) - Can't fly a plane through the middle of town, can you? Same with alchohol - Can't buy alchohol unless your of a certain age. can you? Given the danger presented by guns, it seems perfectly reasonable for the public to expect, just as with planes and alchohol, that limitations be placed on who can have them and restrictions exist as to the public places you can carry them.

As I said before, people kill people - guns just make it easier to do so. For that reason, their use and availability should be subject to strict regulation AND unlawful ownership or their misuse of them should be severely punished.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Well, that's certainly the impression I got from Hog's quote. Further, I think Saden's sentiment is correct.

Saden's point (I think) is that, even though the use of each can result in death (as correctly asserted by Hog), guns, alchohol and planes pose different problems for and different types of the threats to public safety and to assert (as Hog does) that the possible solution for the threat/problem posed by guns is equally applicable to the different threats/problems posed by planes or alchohol - is illogical.

Fact is, because of the inherent danger presented by the use and/or availability of guns, they should be heavily regulated just like any other inherently dangerous machines/objects/devices.

Last I checked the private use of airplanes is heavily regulated (FAA anybody) - Can't fly a plane through the middle of town, can you? Same with alchohol - Can't buy alchohol unless your of a certain age. can you? Given the danger presented by guns, it seems perfectly reasonable for the public to expect, just as with planes and alchohol, that limitations be placed on who can have them and restrictions exist as to the public places you can carry them.

As I said before, people kill people - guns just make it easier to do so. For that reason, their use and availability should be subject to strict regulation AND unlawful ownership or their misuse of them should be severely punished.

While you make valid arguments, and I respect your view, alcohol is worse than guns. It kills and hurts more people than guns do well more than triple fold. The ONLY restriction on alcohol is to be 21. I forget what the age is for guns, but it's at least 18...maybe 21 too.
There are likely just as many if not more stabbings in america as gun related issues. Does this mean we should regulate the knives too? A 5 year old can by a set of steak knives.
Point is, anything can kill or hurt someone. I can throw a rock at your head and hurt or kill you. You don't blame the object, you blame the person. We have become a society that points the finger at anything and everything, when we need to hold each other accountable. I am for MUCH stricter penalties and like I said before, there needs to be waaaay more jails to teach people a lesson.

[Lady Brave]

Building jails and prisons is not that easy. People don't want to pay for them. Guilford County (where I work) has been told repeatedly by the State that we have to reduce overcrowding and need to build a new jail in Greensboro. However, our dumbass democratic commissioners have dug their heels in and they contend we simply need more "programs" in order to reduce overcrowding. It's all politics with them and it will most likely take one of our officers getting killed before someone will realize the seriousness of the situation.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Lady Brave

Building jails and prisons is not that easy. People don't want to pay for them. Guilford County (where I work) has been told repeatedly by the State that we have to reduce overcrowding and need to build a new jail in Greensboro. However, our dumbass democratic commissioners have dug their heels in and they contend we simply need more "programs" in order to reduce overcrowding. It's all politics with them and it will most likely take one of our officers getting killed before someone will realize the seriousness of the situation.

I don't think we should put jail in highly populated areas. We have plenty of space out here in the desert!
Also, people shouldn't be able to vote on it unless it would be within 1 mile of them, or schools. We NEED more jails...people shouldn't bitch and moan so it doesn't happen.

[Lady Brave]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I don't think we should put jail in highly populated areas. We have plenty of space out here in the desert!
Also, people shouldn't be able to vote on it unless it would be within 1 mile of them, or schools. We NEED more jails...people shouldn't bitch and moan so it doesn't happen.

You're confusing jails with prisons. Jails have to be built near a courthouse. The voters vote on bonds to build the jails. We have been trying to avoid putting it before the voters because we know it won't pass. It's not a popular issue and the press has not been on the Sheriff's side either. Our democrat commissioners want to dance around and say that we don't need a jail and that our republican sheriff doesn't care that the people will have to pay more taxes. Politics. If Guilford County keeps screwing around the Feds will eventually come in and tell us where and how we will build a jail. We won't have any say at that point and the County will end up paying more for it.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Lady Brave

You're confusing jails with prisons. Jails have to be built near a courthouse. The voters vote on bonds to build the jails. We have been trying to avoid putting it before the voters because we know it won't pass. It's not a popular issue and the press has not been on the Sheriff's side either. Our democrat commissioners want to dance around and say that we don't need a jail and that our republican sheriff doesn't care that the people will have to pay more taxes. Politics. If Guilford County keeps screwing around the Feds will eventually come in and tell us where and how we will build a jail. We won't have any say at that point and the County will end up paying more for it.

Well, #1- who says it HAS to be near the courthouse (rhetorical)? #2- Build UP.
I am not mistaken prisons for jails...to me I think it's moronic that we have restrictions on jails, there is no need for them. They should be and could be anywhere. There will always be someone there to complain, so if that happens, then move them outside of town where no one is.
While I do think we need more prisons, we need more jails even more.

[Lady Brave]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Well, #1- who says it HAS to be near the courthouse (rhetorical)? #2- Build UP.
I am not mistaken prisons for jails...to me I think it's moronic that we have restrictions on jails, there is no need for them. They should be and could be anywhere. There will always be someone there to complain, so if that happens, then move them outside of town where no one is.
While I do think we need more prisons, we need more jails even more.

We can have 50-75 inmates scheduled for court everyday, not to mention the federal inmates we house for federal court. They have to be in close proximity to the courthouses due to transportation/security issues. We have 2 courthouses/jails in our county. It would be a nightmare transporting them all over the county everyday. People complain that the courts don't run efficiently enough. If the inmates weren't close by it would slow them down even more.

Most jails like ours are old and aren't rated for expansion. Plus, where do you put the inmates while you're renovating? The newer jails being built today are being built with expansion in mind.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Lady Brave

We can have 50-75 inmates scheduled for court everyday, not to mention the federal inmates we house for federal court. They have to be in close proximity to the courthouses due to transportation/security issues. We have 2 courthouses/jails in our county. It would be a nightmare transporting them all over the county everyday. People complain that the courts don't run efficiently enough. If the inmates weren't close by it would slow them down even more.

Most jails like ours are old and aren't rated for expansion. Plus, where do you put the inmates while you're renovating? The newer jails being built today are being built with expansion in mind.

You make good points LB, but to transport criminals 1 hour (say), is no big deal. It can easily be done.
I'm not saying to house N.C's criminals here in the desert, I was just pointing out that we have a ton of space here...I know the east coast is tougher, but you have areas with plenty of space too.
Cambridge, MA houses a lot of criminals, it is right outside of Boston, and it looks like a normal building. If you didn't know any better you would just think it was an average building. A lot of cities should think about building multi level jails. You go up a good 20-50 floors to house these people, but make the building blend in with other buildings.
Build a jail outside of town, a large one, then move all the inmates...when they are moved, then you renovate the old one, now you have 4 times the room to house these people.