Grand Jury Indicts Vick

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by Daseal

There are rumors of him picking up a wounded dog who lost a fight (which he bet 40K on) and dropping the dog over his knee after he lost snapping his back. He didn't actually kill it till several hours later. I hope this sick fuck goes to jail forever.

The NFL is looking pretty bad here releasing a statement saying "... let the legal process run it's course." I know one player who wont be playing this year who also hasn't been convicted of a damn thing. Roger Goodell said something about giving the NFL a black eye will get you suspended. This definitely gives them a black eye.

I also heard about someone who woke up in a tub of ice with their kidneys removed.

Ever heard of an urban legend?

The way people run with this is sickening.

What is the NFL supposed to do? By the way, we live in the United States, not Nazi Germany.

Due process anyone?

[jgalecpa]

Originally Posted by Grim21Reaper

Ever heard of an urban legend?

Last I heard, Grand Jury indictments go a little beyond 'urban legend'.

Due process?

We are not talking about someone who has had zero problems with the law.

WE are not the US governement.

The court of public opinion has given him all the process he is due.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by jgalecpa

Last I heard, Grand Jury indictments go a little beyond 'urban legend'.

Due process?

We are not talking about someone who has had zero problems with the law.

WE are not the US governement.

The court of public opinion has given him all the process he is due.

I was talking about the stupid story about him breaking a dog's back. Your mind is already made up (based on zero factual knowledge by the way) so it isn't even worth discussing with you.

The Duke lacrosse players were indicted too. How did that work out?

Like I said before. Is anyone considering the source? I am sure the people who are going to testify are upstanding members of society who just felt like doing a good deed by giving up information on him.

What problems with the law. Oh yeah, the water bottle incident where he wasn't charged with a single thing. Another public opinion case that he lost.

"Government of the people for the people by the people" We aren't the government? Sit on granddad's knee so I can help you find a clue.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by Grim21Reaper

I was talking about the stupid story about him breaking a dog's back. Your mind is already made up (based on zero factual knowledge by the way) so it isn't even worth discussing with you.

Like I said before. Is anyone considering the source? I am sure the people who are going to testify are upstanding members of society who just felt like doing a good deed by giving up information on him.

"Government of the people for the people by the people" We aren't the government? Sit on granddad's knee so I can help you find a clue.

First of all, who's mind is made up? According to you, there is "zero" chance Vick gets convicted for this. Exactly what "factual knowledge" do you have about this case that we don't that makes you so sure?

Second, people have been convicted of far greater crimes with worse witnesses than what the government has lined up here. In an interview on ESPN last night they interviewed an informant who has already assisted the feds in numerous other cases leading to search warrants and convictions.

Third, I'm not sure I understand the point of your quote, as the quote is meant to refer to our democratic system of representative governement (not the court systems), but in any event, the fact that Vick's jury will be comprised of members of the public actually works against your argument that he won't be convicted of these crimes. The fact that we are all horrified by the accusations made against Vick and that we all have the common sense to put two plus two together to figure out what really happened here doesn't bode well for Vick.

I mean come on, there are absolute facts here that just don't add up to a "not-guilty" verdict. Vick comes into money for the first time in his life, immediately sets about buying a property that is unquestionably used for dog fighting based on the condition of the property and the instruments found there, numerous witnesses come forward placing Vick at dog fights, and we're supposed to believe he didn't know what was going on? Give me a break. Please tell me one single fact you've heard that tends to prove his innocence.

Finally, as for the "urban legend", the indictment notes that at least one dog was killed by Vick and company by slamming the dog's body to the ground. You might want to read through the whole indictment before you come to this scumbag's defense.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

First of all, who's mind is made up? According to you, there is "zero" chance Vick gets convicted for this. Exactly what "factual knowledge" do you have about this case that we don't that makes you so sure?

Second, people have been convicted of far greater crimes with worse witnesses than what the government has lined up here. In an interview on ESPN last night they interviewed an informant who has already assisted the feds in numerous other cases leading to search warrants and convictions.

Third, I'm not sure I understand the point of your quote, as the quote is meant to refer to our democratic system of representative governement (not the court systems), but in any event, the fact that Vick's jury will be comprised of members of the public actually works against your argument that he won't be convicted of these crimes. The fact that we are all horrified by the accusations made against Vick and that we all have the common sense to put two plus two together to figure out what really happened here doesn't bode well for Vick.

I mean come on, there are absolute facts here that just don't add up to a "not-guilty" verdict. Vick comes into money for the first time in his life, immediately sets about buying a property that is unquestionably used for dog fighting based on the condition of the property and the instruments found there, numerous witnesses come forward placing Vick at dog fights, and we're supposed to believe he didn't know what was going on? Give me a break. Please tell me one single fact you've heard that tends to prove his innocence.

Finally, as for the "urban legend", the indictment notes that at least one dog was killed by Vick and company by slamming the dog's body to the ground. You might want to read through the whole indictment before you come to this scumbag's defense.

So you know the witnesses? LOL

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So you know the witnesses? LOL

Not personally. From what I've read in the indictment and seen on the ESPN interviews, however, I'd feel pretty good as the federal prosecutor taking this one to trial. It's not like these witnesses are death row inmates or convicts. One witness is an informant for the feds.....pretty solid there. Another sold pit bulls to Vick. Another has testified that he fought Vick's dogs and WON $23,000 from him, (so much for that theory that the witness is probably just someone who lost everything on the wrong dog). Another witness fought Vick's dog and WON a $7,000 purse and $4,000 side bet with Vick. In fact, if you read through the whole indictment, Vick is overall about as piss poor at breeding and fighting pit bulls as he is at being and NFL QB.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by Grim21Reaper

I was talking about the stupid story about him breaking a dog's back. Your mind is already made up (based on zero factual knowledge by the way) so it isn't even worth discussing with you.

The Duke lacrosse players were indicted too. How did that work out?

Like I said before. Is anyone considering the source? I am sure the people who are going to testify are upstanding members of society who just felt like doing a good deed by giving up information on him.

What problems with the law. Oh yeah, the water bottle incident where he wasn't charged with a single thing. Another public opinion case that he lost.

"Government of the people for the people by the people" We aren't the government? Sit on granddad's knee so I can help you find a clue.

A VT alumn?

The guy is in this, and in it DEEP! you would be niave to thing he isn't. Who pays for all this stuff at the house when not a single one of those fools are employed? Who paid for the house when his boys scoped it out and said this would be good. the 18 page document seemed to be pretty specific about a lot of the details. It sounded to me like they have the written proof putting Vick some what involved in this mess. They seem to have 4 witnesses putting Vick at the fights, agreeing to monetary bets, and killing the dogs.
The Duke Lacross thing was a little different. there was no evidence those kids did anything from the get go. All of that was based on what she said - he said crap. And you saw what happened to that prosecutor! I believe the Feds took their time gathering the evidence. They obviously have some pretty definative proof of Vicks involvement.

[gibbsisgod]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

A VT alumn?

The guy is in this, and in it DEEP! you would be niave to thing he isn't. Who pays for all this stuff at the house when not a single one of those fools are employed? Who paid for the house when his boys scoped it out and said this would be good. the 18 page document seemed to be pretty specific about a lot of the details. It sounded to me like they have the written proof putting Vick some what involved in this mess. They seem to have 4 witnesses putting Vick at the fights, agreeing to monetary bets, and killing the dogs.
The Duke Lacross thing was a little different. there was no evidence those kids did anything from the get go. All of that was based on what she said - he said crap. And you saw what happened to that prosecutor! I believe the Feds took their time gathering the evidence. They obviously have some pretty definative proof of Vicks involvement.

Up until a couple of days ago, everybody thought Vick wouldn't be indicted. Hell, The Surry County prosecutor didn't know anything about it until the Feds released the info. I really like how Feds handled this whole thing. The made sure they had all their ducks in a row before playing their hand. I can't imagine in any cicumstances MV getting off from this. If I was on the Jury(and i know I have only read a portion of the prosecutions case so far) I would have a hard time believeing he is not guilty as sin.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

The Duke Lacross thing was a little different. there was no evidence those kids did anything from the get go. All of that was based on what she said - he said crap. And you saw what happened to that prosecutor! I believe the Feds took their time gathering the evidence. They obviously have some pretty definative proof of Vicks involvement.

Absolutely. The difference between a federal prosecutor and a local city prosecutor is like the difference between a Honda and a Rolls Royce. The Feds are not going to screw this up, and there is no way they even bother indicting him without some strong evidence. The Feds will be able to expend as much time and resources as they need to prosecute this case.

[Dirty_Landry]

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

Absolutely. The difference between a federal prosecutor and a local city prosecutor is like the difference between a Honda and a Rolls Royce. The Feds are not going to screw this up, and there is no way they even bother indicting him without some strong evidence. The Feds will be able to expend as much time and resources as they need to prosecute this case.

i don't believe a word a fed or cia agent says....there all scum

[gibbsisgod]

Originally Posted by Dirty_Landry

i don't believe a word a fed or cia agent says....there all scum

No offense D L but your first 2 post were pretty much meaningless.I hope that isn't a sign of things to come. Nowhere to go but up I guess.


Anyways, welcome! Go skins!

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by Dirty_Landry

i don't believe a word a fed or cia agent says....there all scum

Well, at least in your short time here you've shown that you're not prone to unqualified, blanket generalizations or anything.

And it's "they're." Just figured you'd like to know the grammatically correct way to insult an entire group of people.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by Grim21Reaper

I also heard about someone who woke up in a tub of ice with their kidneys removed.

Ever heard of an urban legend?

The way people run with this is sickening.

What is the NFL supposed to do? By the way, we live in the United States, not Nazi Germany.

Due process anyone?

I have to side with Grim on this one, he deserves to have a fair trial before any punitive action is taken by the league.

That being said, it's not looking good for him at this point. If he is found guilty of what is alleged I hope he never plays another down again.

[djnemo65]

ESPN - Federal indictment intensifies Vick's legal issues - NFL

Excellent article detailing the depth of the challenge Vick faces

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

I have to side with Grim on this one, he deserves to have a fair trial before any punitive action is taken by the league.

That being said, it's not looking good for him at this point. If he is found guilty of what is alleged I hope he never plays another down again.

I agree he deserves a fair trial but the federal government usually doesn't fuck around for the fun of it. The feds have been doing this for 2 years along with the grand jury. There has been some seriously stuff going on that we didn't know.

This is not like the Duke lacrosse charges that were brought up by some local DA. Of course he might not face jail time or whatever, but the way this is going Vick is gonna have to plea to some lesser charge. I highly doubt he will actually fight this unless he truely is innocent. I mean the feds cited 84 instances of cruelty from drowning dogs to dog rape stands. Why would the government go out of their way to charge a high profile athlete? Due to limited funds and other priorities I doubt the government would base this all on circumstantual evidence. They got a solid 2 year case going on here.

I think everyone has the right to say what they feel about Vick. Give the man his trial but Grim and others need to realize this is the Feds, it is a whole different ballgame. The chances of this being just some big misunderstanding at one of his properties seems to be decreasing.