How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

If the NFL suspended Vick, it wouldn't mean that they had "convicted" him of anything. It wouldn't reflect their opinion of his guilt, and it wouldn't have ANYTHING to do with the charges. It would have EVERYTHING to do with the fact that they don't want players with countless dead dogs buried in their backyard, 50 dogs tied to car axles in the back yard, bloody carpet, etc in the league. It isn't good for business.

So in essence the NFL can say we don't know if you're guilty but we're going to suspend you anyways because you're suspected of wrong doing? What's the point of our justice system if employers and take upon themselves the power of judge, jury and executioner?

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

It's simple: if you're an asshole, your employer could fire you. If you smell bad, your employer could fire you. If you engage in unethical behavior, or are suspected of such behavior, your employer could fire you. I believe every employer has that right, and I don't think there is a single thing wrong with it.

Without concrete proof or reason? Without offering a substantial severance package for me to go away? Man, you would make a great employee.

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

Another thing: so much of this is based on physical evidence -- not some witness that could be wrong or have an axe to grind. It is clear that Vick owned property where this evidence was found -- he is not disputing that. His only defense is that he didn't know, and that is a totally weak argument.

You're scaring the hell out of me.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by saden1

So in essence the NFL can say we don't know if you're guilty but we're going to suspend you anyways because you're suspected of wrong doing? What's the point of our justice system if employers and take upon themselves the power of judge, jury and executioner?

Do you *think* Vick had several dog carcasses and over 50 dogs chained to car axles in the backyard, or do you *know*? The FBI discovered that evidence and released the information to the public. Although it is quite possible the FBI is lying, it is not likely at all. So, I'm not talking about the NFL suspending him for *suspicion* of wrong doing. I'm talking about the NFL suspending him for what they already know from the FBI reports, and I don't think that is unreasonable at all.

Originally Posted by saden1

Without concrete proof or reason? Without offering a substantial severance package for me to go away? Man, you would make a great employee.

I never said I would do that. I am a very loyal person. I just said that I think it is the employer's right, and I don't see anything wrong with that. I cannot justify criticizing an employer's right to choose who they want to do their work. It's their money and they don't *have* to employ anyone if they don't want to.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

Do you *think* Vick had several dog carcasses and over 50 dogs chained to car axles in the backyard, or do you *know*? The FBI discovered that evidence and released the information to the public. Although it is quite possible the FBI is lying, it is not likely at all. So, I'm not talking about the NFL suspending him for *suspicion* of wrong doing. I'm talking about the NFL suspending him for what they already know from the FBI reports, and I don't think that is unreasonable at all.

I never said I would do that. I am a very loyal person. I just said that I think it is the employer's right, and I don't see anything wrong with that. I cannot justify criticizing an employer's right to choose who they want to do their work. It's their money and they don't *have* to employ anyone if they don't want to.

You, me, and the rest of the world not withstanding Vick's claim is that he had no knowledge (total BS IMO) and he has a right to due process. He has a right to have is case heard before any harmful action is taken against him by the league.

This whole matter is pretty self explanatory to me. I don't get why people want him to be suspended ASAP without first getting to the heart of the claim and his defense.


p.s. Even when cops are accused of wrong doing they are first suspended with pay. The same rules that apply to everyone else should apply to Vick as well is all I'm saying.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by saden1

You, me, and the rest of the world not withstanding Vick's claim is that he had no knowledge (total BS IMO) and he has a right to due process. He has a right to have is case heard before any harmful action is taken against him by the league.

Honest question, Saden: were you against the Pacman suspension too?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

Honest question, Saden: were you against the Pacman suspension too?

Vick is no Pacman. Pacman was a habitual offender and was constantly in trouble with the law. The league rightly suspended him because he was warned numerous times regarding his conduct. I wholeheartedly supported Pacman's suspension and from the way things turned out the NFL had legal rights to do what they did.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by saden1

You, me, and the rest of the world not withstanding Vick's claim is that he had no knowledge (total BS IMO) and he has a right to due process. He has a right to have is case heard before any harmful action is taken against him by the league.

This whole matter is pretty self explanatory to me. I don't get why people want him to be suspended ASAP without first getting to the heart of the claim and his defense.


p.s. Even when cops are accused of wrong doing they are first suspended with pay. The same rules that apply to everyone else should apply to Vick as well is all I'm saying.

You are right. I don't see much harm in waiting. However, he has already done damage to the league, and that is enough justification to suspend him, IMO. I know you might want to say, "we can't conclude that he has personally done damage, until he is proven guilty. The damage came from the accusations." However, it is very rare that innocent and upstanding citizens have false accusations made about them -- by the FBI -- especially when there is physical evidence.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by saden1

You, me, and the rest of the world not withstanding Vick's claim is that he had no knowledge (total BS IMO) and he has a right to due process. He has a right to have is case heard before any harmful action is taken against him by the league.

This whole matter is pretty self explanatory to me. I don't get why people want him to be suspended ASAP without first getting to the heart of the claim and his defense.


p.s. Even when cops are accused of wrong doing they are first suspended with pay. The same rules that apply to everyone else should apply to Vick as well is all I'm saying.

So if Vick was to show up on the next episode of To Catch A Predator do you think the NFL should have to await until after his trail to suspend him?

There was enough evidence against him that he was indited and he's brought so much negative attention to himself, the Falcons, and the entire league that I can't believe neither his team nor the league has suspended him yet.

[DEVIL'S OWN]

Originally Posted by ArtMonkDrillz

So if Vick was to show up on the next episode of To Catch A Predator do you think the NFL should have to await until after his trail to suspend him?

There was enough evidence against him that he was indited and he's brought so much negative attention to himself, the Falcons, and the entire league that I can't believe neither his team nor the league has suspended him yet.

The Inditement means that some has said of can confirm that he had knowledge of this, but who's to say, that someone is crediable witness, and If Vick showed up on to catch a predator, we wouldn't be having this discussion.........Would we?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by ArtMonkDrillz

So if Vick was to show up on the next episode of To Catch A Predator do you think the NFL should have to await until after his trail to suspend him?

Are you being facetious or serious with such a question/analogy? If you already don't know the answer...guilt is pretty clear in that instance.

Originally Posted by ArtMonkDrillz

There was enough evidence against him that he was indited and he's brought so much negative attention to himself, the Falcons, and the entire league that I can't believe neither his team nor the league has suspended him yet.

The league can't do anything because the allegations are just that, allegations. It needs proof that he knew of everything that went on in that house. That's how the world works. No one really cares about Vick's side of things and the defensive evidence he might present to prove his innocent. Everyone has already judged him guilty. It pains me to think we are no longer a society that believes in "innocent until proven guilty."

What the league is trying to do right now (ask him to take time off) is the right thing to do and the only legal recourse they have.

[81forHOF]

If Vick participated in or knew of any of these allegations he should be banished from the NFL for life. Period.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by saden1

Are you being facetious or serious with such a question/analogy? If you already don't know the answer...guilt is pretty clear in that instance.



The league can't do anything because the allegations are just that, allegations. It needs proof that he knew of everything that went on in that house. That's how the world works. No one really cares about Vick's side of things and the defensive evidence he might present to prove his innocent. Everyone has already judged him guilty. It pains me to think we are no longer a society that believes in "innocent until proven guilty."

What the league is trying to do right now (ask him to take time off) is the right thing to do and the only legal recourse they have.

So all of the people on TCAP are guilty even though they've yet to go on trail?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by ArtMonkDrillz

So all of the people on TCAP are guilty even though they've yet to go on trail?

Comparing Vick's current circumstance to that of a TCAP perp is quite a reach.


Let me make this even more simple for you:
1. People on TCAP have been entrapped with the assistance of the authorities.
2. They were lured under the guise of having sex with a minor.
3. Internet chat transcripts show their intent to have sex with a minor.
4. They showed up to a house wanting to have sex with a minor.
5. They were arrested before they have the opportunity to have sex with a minor.


Basically, they are caught the moment before they committed a crime by law enforcement and we have full knowledge of their intent to commit a crime. The evidence against them is so overwhelming it's near impossible for them to prove their innocence. We can therefore deduce their guilt and convict them for the intent to commit the crime with the support of all the evidence. I can't say the same about Vick and the case against him.

[memphisskin]

The feds do cherrypick cases, so Vick seems screwed. But why is the state bringing charges now? This seems a bit hard for me to take, that Mike Vick is so involved in dogfighting. At the same time, the house was only $34,000 so it's entirely plausible that he gave that to a relative to get a business started. But involved in the day to day, pulling strings like that on an illegal enterprise? Really? Is the enemy dogfighting or Mike Vick? Is Mike Vick that big of an idiot? Perhaps, but I'm going to go with the presumption of innocence and hope that this unparalleled athlete didn't just go throw his football career away over dogfighting in Southern Virginia in his offseason. If so, he deserves it, but it's just a bit hard for me to take it as fact right now.