Breaking News: Barry Bonds Hits 756

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Buster Olney

No comparing Bonds across eras
posted: Wednesday, August 8, 2007 | Feedback | Print Entry

The number he has generated is so overwhelming that, at first glance, you don't really think about the advantages of science that he had over players from other generations. What you think about is the enormity of what he accomplished, when compared with others in his era. Playing in the same parks, with the same rules, with the same science as all the players of his time, he managed to compile a staggering statistic, accomplishing something over 100 times more than anybody of his generation.

But can we fairly compare Cy Young and his 511 victories with Sandy Koufax and his 165 victories? Or with Roger Clemens, who has 159 fewer wins than Young? We want to, but we really cannot. Apples and oranges. Different time, different ballparks, different game. Different science, in the way baseballs were constructed and maintained and replaced.

Can we fairly compare Barry Bonds and his 756 homers with the accomplishments of Ty Cobb, who played in the deadball era and hit a total of 117 homers? Or with Babe Ruth, who played when the sport was segregated? Or with Hank Aaron, whose home ballpark, for years, was smaller than Bonds' home park? Can we fairly compare Bonds with players of other generations, given the advances of science that allegedly have aided him? Nope. Different time, different game, different science. Apples and oranges.

After the game, Bonds was asked whether his home run record is tainted, and he answered bluntly. "This record is not tainted at all," he said. "At all. Period." That is what he believes. Either way, the word "steroids" is going to appear in the first two paragraphs of Bonds' obituary -- fairly or not, whether you like it or not.

But the number Bonds has generated overwhelms those produced by others of his time -- and many of his peers have probably competed with the same scientific advantages that Bonds likely has had. Sammy Sosa ranks second in home runs among players of what will always be called the steroid era, with 604 homers, 152 fewer than Bonds.

Bonds is the best player of his era. Is he better than Aaron? Better than Ruth? Better than Ted Williams or Cobb? I don't know. Apples and oranges. We do know that Bonds has hit more home runs than anybody in history, just as Cy Young has the most victories. Baseball fans must decide for themselves.

From an article on ESPN Insider.

Buster makes some very good points.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by jdlea

From an article on ESPN Insider.

Buster makes some very good points.

You have incredible foresight.



I wish they hadn't "fixed" it so he'd hit it at home. I wish they'd just let him play and let it happen when and where it would have. I would've LOVED to see it happen at Dodger Stadium.

But no, the big juiced monster would have his feelings hurt if he's booed, which would happen EVERYWHERE except for SF.

It doesn't matter. On paper, Bonds may be ahead of Hammerin' Hank, but in my mind, Aaron is still the "Home Run King". He didn't need to cheat to achieve his greatness. Bonds, although always a jerk, WAS a great player before he decided to juice, but without the steroids, there is no way he'd be anywhere near 756. Bonds was arrogant enough to say there is no controversy with his record.


Barry Bonds:

1986 PIT 16
1987 PIT 25
1988 PIT 24
1989 PIT 19
1990 PIT 33
1991 PIT 25
1992 PIT 34
1993 SF 46
1994 SF 37
1995 SF 33
1996 SF 42
1997 SF 40
1998 SF 37
1999 SF 34
2000 SF 49*
2001 SF 73*
2002 SF 46*
2003 SF 45*
2004 SF 45*
2005 SF 5
2006 SF 26
2007 SF 22

* = We know what happened in these years.

Beginning of career --> End of career

-->


Hank Aaron:

1954 Braves 13
1955 Braves 27
1956 Braves 26
1957 Braves 44
1958 Braves 30
1959 Braves 39
1960 Braves 40
1961 Braves 34
1962 Braves 45
1963 Braves 44
1964 Braves 24
1965 Braves 32
1966 Braves 44
1967 Braves 39
1968 Braves 29
1969 Braves 44
1970 Braves 38
1971 Braves 47
1972 Braves 34
1973 Braves 40
1974 Braves 20
1975 Brewers 12
1976 Brewers 10

Beginning of career --> End of career

-->





Notice Aaron's consistency throughout his career as opposed to Bonds'.

But wait...

MLB Credits Hank Aaron With 50 Lost Home Runs

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Buster

It doesn't matter. On paper, Bonds may be ahead of Hammerin' Hank, but in my mind, Aaron is still the "Home Run King". He didn't need to cheat to achieve his greatness.

I heard Mike Schmidt (I think) once say that if the drugs and supplements that are available now were available when he was playing he is certain he would have taken them. I wonder if Aaron would have done the same.

But anyhow, one thing that really ticks me off is all these people saying what a great person and player Hank Aaron is/was when I'm sure many of these same people are the same ones sending him hate mail and death threats because he was an African-Amercian shattering the treasured record of Babe Ruth (who was no saint himself)

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Buster

You have incredible foresight.



I wish they hadn't "fixed" it so he'd hit it at home. I wish they'd just let him play and let it happen when and where it would have. I would've LOVED to see it happen at Dodger Stadium.

But no, the big juiced monster would have his feelings hurt if he's booed, which would happen EVERYWHERE except for SF.

It doesn't matter. On paper, Bonds may be ahead of Hammerin' Hank, but in my mind, Aaron is still the "Home Run King". He didn't need to cheat to achieve his greatness. Bonds, although always a jerk, WAS a great player before he decided to juice, but without the steroids, there is no way he'd be anywhere near 756. Bonds was arrogant enough to say there is no controversy with his record.


Barry Bonds:

1986 PIT 16
1987 PIT 25
1988 PIT 24
1989 PIT 19
1990 PIT 33
1991 PIT 25
1992 PIT 34
1993 SF 46
1994 SF 37
1995 SF 33
1996 SF 42
1997 SF 40
1998 SF 37
1999 SF 34
2000 SF 49*
2001 SF 73*
2002 SF 46*
2003 SF 45*
2004 SF 45*
2005 SF 5
2006 SF 26
2007 SF 22

* = We know what happened in these years.

Beginning of career --> End of career

-->


Hank Aaron:

1954 Braves 13
1955 Braves 27
1956 Braves 26
1957 Braves 44
1958 Braves 30
1959 Braves 39
1960 Braves 40
1961 Braves 34
1962 Braves 45
1963 Braves 44
1964 Braves 24
1965 Braves 32
1966 Braves 44
1967 Braves 39
1968 Braves 29
1969 Braves 44
1970 Braves 38
1971 Braves 47
1972 Braves 34
1973 Braves 40
1974 Braves 20
1975 Brewers 12
1976 Brewers 10

Beginning of career --> End of career

-->





Notice Aaron's consistency throughout his career as opposed to Bonds'.

But wait...

MLB Credits Hank Aaron With 50 Lost Home Runs

Funny link.
Did you see the sportscenter section when they put the old Bonds head up next to the new bonds head? The space between his eyes and the side of his head doubled at least!
How do we honestly know that Bonds didn't take steriods in 93? Or even 90?
Look at his stats:
86- .223, 16hr
87- .261, 25hr
88- .283, 24hr
89- .248, 19hr
90- .301, 33hr?
91- .292, 25hr
92- .311, 34hr
93- .336, 46hr?
You can see a significant change in his numbers from the 89 to 90 seasons, as you can see from 92 to 93 seasons. In fact, in 93, he hit 12 more homers than his career high, and hit 25 points higher than his career high. Also, his stolen bases dropped significantly in 93 to 29.
We talk about the massive size of Bonds that we noticed in 2000, but there are several players that take roids that don't get cartoonish. Bonds could have started in 1990, or 1993.