For those that want Ramsey traded or Hasselbeck to start:

[Gmanc711]

Originally Posted by SUNRA

Your record says who your are.

Leftwitch was 5-9 as a starter last year. Ramsey was 4-7. Leftwitch is 2-0 this year, and Ramsey is 0-0. I really dont understand how Leftwitch is so much better in that respect.

[SUNRA]

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

Leftwitch was 5-9 as a starter last year. Ramsey was 4-7. Leftwitch is 2-0 this year, and Ramsey is 0-0. I really dont understand how Leftwitch is so much better in that respect.

I think you just made my point. Leftwich is 2-0 as a Jacksonville QB this year. Ramsey is 0-0 as a 2# QB who has lost his starting position to a QB who lost his job to Leftwich. Now how did that happen? Oh because Ramsey needed a veteran to teach him the ropes while Leftwich, Harrington and Brady are 2-0.

[SmootSmack]

Leftwich is a local kid and I'm rooting for him to do well but I think money played as big a factor as any in the Jags going with Leftwich and letting Brunell go. They're cost-cutting down in Jacksonville, that's a big reason why Brackens and Douglass are gone as well. Saving money and going with youth.

True, Leftwich led a drive that ended in a spectacular catch by Wilford in the back of the endzone. Sucks for Ramsey that Gardner couldn't catch the ball in the endzone on Sunday.

[dieselhog]

Hey, I've got an idea...

Lets draft a QB in the first round, watch him play with more guts and toughness than any QB in the league other than Favre as he gets MASHED behind his line, still manage to throw more TDs than picks in his rookie year.

THEN... lets build him up, talk about his toughness and his rifle arm and being QB of the future.

THEN.. We should bring in a vet and turn our backs on the kid.

THEN.. We should write him off and wipe our feet on him on the strength of a pre-season in a nerw scheme were he is dealing with the fact that a vet has been brought in and 3 INTs thrown whilst chasing the game.

Oh, I'm sorry. Some of you have already done all of this, haven't you?

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

We destroyed Gus like this. Brad had a pro-bowl campaign and takes us to the play-offs and is a hero. Has a rocky contract season and people hate him.

What does he do? Oh, he only helped his team win the superbowl.

TIME SOME PEOPLE GOT OUT OF THEIR PRAMS AND GREW UP.

Give Ramsey a chance, Peyton Manning and Favre didn't set the league on fire in the begining.

[Hogskin]

Originally Posted by dieselhog

We destroyed Gus like this.

LOL LOL LOL

Sorry, but I could not help laughing - I recall a headbutt being the turning point in Gus' career. I often wondered if he did permanent brain damage that day. He never had any consistency with the Redskins or since. The fans did not make him smash his head into that wall and become the laughingstock of the NFL. Neither did the coaches. The idea that somehow the fans permanently damaged his psyche is pure silliness.

And as far as Brad Johnson - how do you see that in any way the same as Ramsey? He was proven before he got here, did a credible job here, and Dan Snyder, in one of his worst blunders, got rid of him for Eddie George. Do you really think the fans wanted that???!!!!??? Maybe you werte out of town at the time, but that is certainly not the sentiment I heard.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by dieselhog

Hey, I've got an idea...

Lets draft a QB in the first round, watch him play with more guts and toughness than any QB in the league other than Favre as he gets MASHED behind his line, still manage to throw more TDs than picks in his rookie year.

THEN... lets build him up, talk about his toughness and his rifle arm and being QB of the future.

THEN.. We should bring in a vet and turn our backs on the kid.

THEN.. We should write him off and wipe our feet on him on the strength of a pre-season in a nerw scheme were he is dealing with the fact that a vet has been brought in and 3 INTs thrown whilst chasing the game.

Oh, I'm sorry. Some of you have already done all of this, haven't you?

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

We destroyed Gus like this. Brad had a pro-bowl campaign and takes us to the play-offs and is a hero. Has a rocky contract season and people hate him.

What does he do? Oh, he only helped his team win the superbowl.

TIME SOME PEOPLE GOT OUT OF THEIR PRAMS AND GREW UP.

Give Ramsey a chance, Peyton Manning and Favre didn't set the league on fire in the begining.

It is funny how you get mad when people put down the players you like.
Do you show this same anger when people want a player like Rod Gardner shipped out? Another player that is strugling (like Ramsey) who in the ENTIRE season of 2002 showed as our #1 receiver he can be an NFL WR, with 71 catches for 1006 yards and a 14.2 average per catch. He did this over an entire season.
Not like Ramsey who shows good and bad in tiny spurts.
But you are willing get on your high horse and chastise people for stating their opinions on Ramsey on an opinion message board? Everyone's favorite players get put down in this forum.
This is the kind of thing I was talking about the Ramsey fans. God forbid any one put down the toughest , incredible, future hall of fame, future 5 time super bowl winner, the Qb with the most potential since Jeff George.
LOL
You guys talk about him like he has already proved something in this league.
I am one those that wants Ramsey to suceed and be our #1. But he has not done that yet. I am just tired of the rabid Ramsey fans talking about Ramsey like we owe him something. He has put his health and body on the line just like any Redskin. He gets paid millions to play football. We do not owe him anything.

[Hogskin]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I am one those that wants Ramsey to suceed and be our #1. But he has not done that yet. I am just tired of the rabid Ramsey fans talking about Ramsey like we owe him something. He has put his health and body on the line just like any Redskin. He gets paid millions to play football. We do not owe him anything.

DW, I agree with your entire post. The only thing I would add (and I'm sure you intended this to be understood in your post):

We DO owe Ramsey one thing - every Redskin fan owes him this. Any time he goes onto the field as our QB, we owe him our full support. We cheer our lungs out for him and hope he plays a spectacular game. And if he DOES fail miserable, we DO NOT BOO!!

But like you indicated, if he continues to make zero progress on his problems with fundamentals, we have EVERY RIGHT to point it out as fans. We all want every player on the roster to develop into an ALL-PRO. But there is nothing wrong with a little realism when it is clearly not going that direction. I doubt, also, if he screamed in anger at Shuler or Howard critics a few years back.

I bet he did not give them a slew of ridiculous, offensive sarcasm.

I bet he did not tell them to "be ashamed" LOL

I bet he did not accuse them of "destroying" HS/DH careers.

I bet he did not attempt to compare HS/DH to a future Hall of Fame QB!!!!

And I bet he did not resort to calling them babies because they had the audacity to post an opinion different than his.

Get real - this forum does not make or destroy anyone's NFL career. A bit dramatic, I would say. And if someone's psyche is so fragile that a little criticism from fans destroys them, how far do you think they would have gone against MUCH HARSHER NFL opponents???

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Hogskin

........We DO owe Ramsey one thing - every Redskin fan owes him this. Any time he goes onto the field as our QB, we owe him our full support. We cheer our lungs out for him and hope he plays a spectacular game. And if he DOES fail miserable, we DO NOT BOO!!......

Good point.

[SUNRA]

[QUOTE=smootsmack]Leftwich is a local kid and I'm rooting for him to do well but I think money played as big a factor as any in the Jags going with Leftwich and letting Brunell go. They're cost-cutting down in Jacksonville, that's a big reason why Brackens and Douglass are gone as well. Saving money and going with youth.

True, Leftwich led a drive that ended in a spectacular catch by Wilford in the back of the endzone. Sucks for Ramsey that Gardner couldn't catch the ball in the endzone on Sunday.[/QUOTE

Leftwich is not only from D.C., but he played for my neighborhood high school H.D. Woodson so I'm definintely pulling for him.

[dieselhog]

Johnson was given a hrd time in his second season.

It wasn't just about Snyder, he said he was relieved to get out of DC for 'many reasons.'

This team is ALWAYS too quick to make heroes and then villains out of QBs.

Gus was no world beater but the point was that he was treated like one too early, one pro-bowl season does not make a HOF career but expectations became unrealistic from a lot of people and he was never going to live up to that.

He has proven, esp at Denver and Minnesota, that he is a great back-up who can perform very well in those circumstances, just not a week-to-week dependable player.

[dieselhog]

But yes, the 7-7 with the Ginats was an AWFUL game and Gus headbutting the wall was beyond stupid.

Norv had a classic quote though "I never thought to tell him not to headbut a wall.."

[Hogskin]

Matty,

As far as fans here turning on players, I think it is just the opposite. In most cities, the bulk of the fan base would have been upset (and even BOOED) Gardner (many drops since he has been here) and Samuels (2 years of bad play and seemingly lethargic attitude). But here, they do not get booed (THANKFULLY - our players should NEVER get booed at home), and most fans ruffle their feathers if you even suggest a trade of these guys. Now as far as QB's - the leader of the offense and usually the team, sure, anywhere you go, folks are a bit quick to judge them. Just like the head coach, fans see this guy responsible for the success or failure of the team, and everyone wants to win.

Now, where Ramsey is concerned, I really can not see how anyone would say it is quick. If it was just losing vs. winning, or too many interceptions, then you would have a point. But that is not what I and others are talking about. It is serious problems with fundamentals that he has shown absolutely no progress on, in over 2 calendar years. This does not at all correlate to the great QB's that have been mentioned from other teams, who got off to a slow start. This correlates more to Scott Secules or that guy at SF (forget his name) a few years ago with the bazooka arm.

But I AM with you on one facet of the discussion. If Brunell is not able to start, I agree Ramsey SHOULD start. And I hope like hell he has a miraculous turnaround, and that he becomes the next Brett Favre. I don't play extreme longshots, but if I am forced to play this one, I still pull for the big win.