Buy Bonds 756 Hr Ball Now!!!!!!

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by skinsfanthru&thru

I have no disrespect for anyone who disagrees but I honestly don't know how anyone can actually cheer for the man. I can understand not wanting to completely hate the guy until their is an actual positive test, but there is just way too much stuff that points to him being guilty. As someone was talking about on ESPN last night after this happened, his head has gotten proportionaly(sp?) larger and that can only result from a couple of ways including HGH and having the same form of gigantism that Andre the Giant suffered from. Then there is the fact his former trainer is willing to do serious jail time rather than testify against his former friend, Bonds. Not too mention how completely different his body was from 1999 to 2000. And I don't care how much work an athlete puts into their workout program, there is absolutely no possible way an baseball player could suddenly jump from 31.8 hrs/yr to 51.6 hrs/yr during the five years after his much scrutinized drastic change in body style and widely reported initial usage of HGH and the like. I don't believe his acheivements since then have been on the up and up much like I don't believe Roger Clemens could have been stayed @ the level he had been at before this year w/o some type of help. Maybe it's the pessimist in me but there's just too much evidence for me to accept the acheivements over those from the past. I have no problems saying Bonds was an absolutely exceptional player before 2000 and could have gone down as one of the top 10 players of all time but the past few years have forever tarnished his career in my eyes personally. Just like I used to like MacGuire from back in his days with Oakland & St.Louis and now I can't believe I used to cheer for the guy.

That's the problem though. When you say "Barry cheated" you sorta miss the point. He probably did, however, you clearly state that you believe that a lot of other guys were too. I mean, Jason Grimsley and Guillermo Mota have each tested positive for God's sake! They're fringe Major Leaguers at best and they are on the juice. If they're juicing, I have to believe everyone was, which makes it impossible to separate Barry from the pack. I cheer for the man because I am happy to see a record like this fall in my lifetime and I've always liked watching Barry Bonds play. Up until a few years ago, he was probably the best all around ball player since his godfather, Willie Mays.

I am willing to acknowledge that Bonds probably did juice. However, my problem is: so did everyone else. I posted an article by Buster Olney where he says that can't compare different eras in baseball because "science" changes and so do baseballs, ballparks, etc. Bonds broke baseball's most hallowed record by using steroids in an era that has been dominated by steroid users. I have no problem with a guy being greater than every other hitter in his generation, especially not when they were all on the juice.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, baseball deserves this. They turned a blind eye to roids for years, then decided they would become indignant that people were actually doing them. It's bs. They knew what was going on and as long as people kept coming through the turnstyles they'd sweep it under the rug. Now, that there is so much light on it, they want to talk about records not being legitimate or keep people out of the Hall of Fame, it's not right. Until every other cheater ever comes out of the Hall, McGwire, Canseco and Bonds all deserve to go in. It's not a popularity contest, it's about greatness and they're all great ballplayers, regardless of why.

[Redskin Rich]

Originally Posted by jdlea

That's the problem though. When you say "Barry cheated" you sorta miss the point. He probably did, however, you clearly state that you believe that a lot of other guys were too. I mean, Jason Grimsley and Guillermo Mota have each tested positive for God's sake! They're fringe Major Leaguers at best and they are on the juice. If they're juicing, I have to believe everyone was, which makes it impossible to separate Barry from the pack. I cheer for the man because I am happy to see a record like this fall in my lifetime and I've always liked watching Barry Bonds play. Up until a few years ago, he was probably the best all around ball player since his godfather, Willie Mays.

I am willing to acknowledge that Bonds probably did juice. However, my problem is: so did everyone else. I posted an article by Buster Olney where he says that can't compare different eras in baseball because "science" changes and so do baseballs, ballparks, etc. Bonds broke baseball's most hallowed record by using steroids in an era that has been dominated by steroid users. I have no problem with a guy being greater than every other hitter in his generation, especially not when they were all on the juice.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, baseball deserves this. They turned a blind eye to roids for years, then decided they would become indignant that people were actually doing them. It's bs. They knew what was going on and as long as people kept coming through the turnstyles they'd sweep it under the rug. Now, that there is so much light on it, they want to talk about records not being legitimate or keep people out of the Hall of Fame, it's not right. Until every other cheater ever comes out of the Hall, McGwire, Canseco and Bonds all deserve to go in. It's not a popularity contest, it's about greatness and they're all great ballplayers, regardless of why.

Why do I feel like there are 2 different conversations in one thread... can you say HIJACK???

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Redskin Rich

Why do I feel like there are 2 different conversations in one thread... can you say HIJACK???

I know, I felt like I should have put it in the other Bonds thread, but I wanted to make sure I responded to that post.

[Redskin Rich]

Originally Posted by jdlea

I know, I felt like I should have put it in the other Bonds thread, but I wanted to make sure I responded to that post.

OK... ..... no hard feelings.....