Any News on Andre Carter?

[Monksdown]

Didnt he say that at the end of last year, the coaching staff finally just let him go. That's what our boy Sam was saying on Riggo last night. For most of the year, they were limiting him to a particular gap to control. Once they let him free lance, he was able to generate pressure on the quarterback.

Doesnt that type of freelancing encourage the offense to run at you on that side?

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

Didnt he say that at the end of last year, the coaching staff finally just let him go. That's what our boy Sam was saying on Riggo last night. For most of the year, they were limiting him to a particular gap to control. Once they let him free lance, he was able to generate pressure on the quarterback.

Doesnt that type of freelancing encourage the offense to run at you on that side?

The problem with this thinking that a DE should be able to stop the run and rush the passer is no one in the NFL does it.

Dwight Freeney's best season of all (as far as tackles) he had 45 tackles, 12 sacks. His best for sacks? 16 and 32 tackles. A sack also counts as a tackle, so he had all of 1 tackle a game outside of those sacks, but he was still widely regarded as a menace.

Simeon Rice never had more than 44 tackles in a season in Tampa.

Julius Peppers has never had more than 53 tackles and he's one of the best defenders in the league.

Andre Cater had only 6 sacks, but he did have 47 tackles last year. About par for a guy whose focus is the pass rush.

Ends are not going to put up a ton of tackles if their goal is to get to the quarterback. I still contend that Warrick Holdman is the reason Andre was dubbed Highway 99. If Andre gets up the field, the run will go right by him, the outside linebacker should be the one to stop a big gain, not the end. Holdman should take more responsibility for getting eaten up on big running plays than Andre Carter should.

[Monksdown]

Those are very accurate points. So should we be more upset with GW for holding him back? Why would he have not just let him go from the start?

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

Those are very accurate points. So should we be more upset with GW for holding him back? Why would he have not just let him go from the start?

I'm not really upset either way. I don't think "freelance" is necessarily the word to use, though, given the context it has been used here in the past. In regards to an end, if his forte is rushing the passer, just get him up the as quickly as possible. Tell him go after the QB, if he can react to the run, that's great. Now, if he anticipates run, say 3rd and 1, rein him in, but I don't think they should tell him to cover a gap on any reasonable passing down. I don't want Carter filling a gap on a 2nd and 7. That down and distance could go either way, but I want him to primarily go after the QB and I think that would be when he would be most effective, rushing the passer, not playing the run.

[jermus22]

Very few guys past or present can dominate both as pass rushers and run stoppers. Dexter Manley was an elite pass rusher (especially off the edge) but never a dominate run stopper (which is why we had Daryl Grant and Neal Olkewicz helping him). On the other hand, guys like Reggie White and Charles Mann were very good at both, although Mann slowed down in his later years as a pass rusher. Perhaps we're expecting too much from a weakside defensive end when we ask him to dominate in both aspects of his game. At 255 pounds (he apparently lost 10 lbs this offseason), Carter is more fit as a rusher off the edge rather than a slugger and mauler in the trenches.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by jermus22

Very few guys past or present can dominate both as pass rushers and run stoppers. Dexter Manley was an elite pass rusher (especially off the edge) but never a dominate run stopper (which is why we had Daryl Grant and Neal Olkewicz helping him). On the other hand, guys like Reggie White and Charles Mann were very good at both, although Mann slowed down in his later years as a pass rusher. Perhaps we're expecting too much from a weakside defensive end when we ask him to dominate in both aspects of his game. At 255 pounds (he apparently lost 10 lbs this offseason), Carter is more fit as a rusher off the edge rather than a slugger and mauler in the trenches.

He's down to 255 pounds? That's LB size, not DE size. I hope he got quicker.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by jsarno

He's down to 255 pounds? That's LB size, not DE size. I hope he got quicker.

I don't think his weight matters. 255 or 280, a pure pass rusher who works hard to avoid the tackles instead of beat them is toast against the run.

If this helps him be a more efficient pass rusher, I guarentee you he's no worse off at stopping the run than he was last year.

That's not exactly a vote of confidence, but I'm confident that we see significant improvement out of Carter this season.

Rest of the DL...lets just say I'd definately let Wynn play the LE. Daniels is pretty awful against the run too. Still a good pass rusher though.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Don't think his weight matters. 255 or 280, a pure pass rusher who works hard to avoid the tackles instead of beat them is toast against the run.

If this helps him be a more efficient pass rusher, I guarentee you he's no worse off at stopping the run than he was last year.

That's not exactly a vote of confidence, but I'm confident that we see significant improvement out of Carter this season.

Rest of the DL...lets just say I'd definately let Wynn play the LE. Daniels is pretty awful against the run too. Still a good pass rusher though.

If we can get the Daniels of late 2005, I would be estastic

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

If we can get the Daniels of late 2005, I would be estastic

That's pretty much what Carter is.

Except without the risk of 2006 Phillip Daniels next season.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I don't think his weight matters. 255 or 280, a pure pass rusher who works hard to avoid the tackles instead of beat them is toast against the run.

If this helps him be a more efficient pass rusher, I guarentee you he's no worse off at stopping the run than he was last year.

That's not exactly a vote of confidence, but I'm confident that we see significant improvement out of Carter this season.

Rest of the DL...lets just say I'd definately let Wynn play the LE. Daniels is pretty awful against the run too. Still a good pass rusher though.

I do think weight matters, especially when you're going up against the best tackles in the league. Why do you think Bruce Smith and Reggie White, and really any good DE does / did so well? Cause they have the size with the athleticism. He can be as quick as he wants, but if he hits a wall, that wall is knocking him down instead of him knocking the wall down.
I hope you're right about Carter, I'd love to see us actually have a pass rush for a change.