Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins?

[The Zimmermans]

JOE GIBBS football will work consistently if we hire a GM that picks the personnel to support joe gibbs football.

That includes a big HB, and small fast HB

A big possession third down receiver, and a solid offensive line

Otherwise, "JOE GIBBS" football will struggle

[Redskins247]

Originally Posted by The Zimmermans

JOE GIBBS football will work consistently if we hire a GM that picks the personnel to support joe gibbs football.

That includes a big HB, and small fast HB

A big possession third down receiver, and a solid offensive line

Otherwise, "JOE GIBBS" football will struggle

I agree on that...unfortunately I don't think that's going to happen...even if Gibbs stayed on for 3 more years.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by The Zimmermans

JOE GIBBS football will work consistently if we hire a GM that picks the personnel to support joe gibbs football.

That includes a big HB, and small fast HB

A big possession third down receiver, and a solid offensive line

Otherwise, "JOE GIBBS" football will struggle

One problem no one is accounting for is that the game today is vastly different, and not just for reasons I have already mentioned, but for the fact we are in the salary cap era. The line that Gibbs had stayed relatively in tact for over a decade, while already in part 2 he's been through a bunch of O linemen. You just can't keep people like you could have in years past. I think this is a factor in a Joe Gibbs type system.

[The Zimmermans]

yeah, I support the game plan we have....but it doesnt seem to always work due to lack of personnel, who the hell are we gonna throw to if we don't have moss....we should be going to cooley ALOT

[Redskins247]

Hell I don't think we're going to Cooley enough now!!! Where are the crossing routes? From any of them??? ARE is having a great year so far though...

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by Redskins247

Hell I don't think we're going to Cooley enough now!!! Where are the crossing routes? From any of them??? ARE is having a great year so far though...

We're using Cooley far too often as an extra blocker on passing downs due to the OL injuries. I found it troubling that he was locked up with Strahan late in the Giants game. If you want an extra blocker, make that Sellers' assignment, not Cooley's.

[Redskins247]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

We're using Cooley far too often as an extra blocker on passing downs due to the OL injuries. I found it troubling that he was locked up with Strahan late in the Giants game. If you want an extra blocker, make that Sellers' assignment, not Cooley's.

Excellent Point!!! Cooley is far too valuable as a receiver....I really thought they would be using him as much as the colts use dallas clark in the passing game this year....but not yet.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

We're using Cooley far too often as an extra blocker on passing downs due to the OL injuries. I found it troubling that he was locked up with Strahan late in the Giants game. If you want an extra blocker, make that Sellers' assignment, not Cooley's.

While I see someone agreed with you...I respectfully disagree with you.
#1- Cooley is TE, and a TE by definition lines up to block first, be a weapon downfield 2nd.
#2- with all our injuries, someone needs to step up.
#3- Sellers isn't always on the field. When he is in passing situations, he's picking up the oncoming rush while Portis goes out to the flat. You can't expect him to pick up someone like Strahan after Strahan already had 5 yards to get his speed up. You need someone up on the line to block and Sellers doesn't do that.

There is no easy answer for the fact that our line is beat up...we need help from everywhere.

By the way, what was the final word on how long Thomas and Jansen will be out?? Anyone get a final answer?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by jsarno

While I see someone agreed with you...I respectfully disagree with you.
#1- Cooley is TE, and a TE by definition lines up to block first, be a weapon downfield 2nd.
#2- with all our injuries, someone needs to step up.
#3- Sellers isn't always on the field. When he is in passing situations, he's picking up the oncoming rush while Portis goes out to the flat. You can't expect him to pick up someone like Strahan after Strahan already had 5 yards to get his speed up. You need someone up on the line to block and Sellers doesn't do that.

There is no easy answer for the fact that our line is beat up...we need help from everywhere.

By the way, what was the final word on how long Thomas and Jansen will be out?? Anyone get a final answer?

Jansen is officially out for the season (on IR) and Thomas is out until December, maybe the entire year depending on his rehab..

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by jsarno

While I see someone agreed with you...I respectfully disagree with you.
#1- Cooley is TE, and a TE by definition lines up to block first, be a weapon downfield 2nd.
#2- with all our injuries, someone needs to step up.
#3- Sellers isn't always on the field. When he is in passing situations, he's picking up the oncoming rush while Portis goes out to the flat. You can't expect him to pick up someone like Strahan after Strahan already had 5 yards to get his speed up. You need someone up on the line to block and Sellers doesn't do that.

There is no easy answer for the fact that our line is beat up...we need help from everywhere.

By the way, what was the final word on how long Thomas and Jansen will be out?? Anyone get a final answer?

A couple of things here-
Gibbs brought in Saunders to implement a system. He wouldn't have done that if he was satisfied his old school style would hold up nowadays. The TE is a huge part of a Saunders offense. And Cooley has been phenomenal. Just as Gonzalez was phenomenal when Saunders was in KC. I agree that Gibbs likes the TE to be a blocker, but Don Warren and Clint Didier caught their share of passes too. Cooley is a mismatch weapon on offense, and should be used as such. Gibbs drafted him to be his signature "h-back," and he's worked out as far as production is concerned, even though the h-back isn't around now. Now that the line is dinged we may need to use more two TE sets, with Cooley as a passing option and Yoder staying in to help block.

I disagree that Sellers can't block Strahan types. At 285lbs he is as big or bigger than most DE's in the league.

And despite the two injuries on the O-line, we are pretty healthy. We need to come out and pound this Lions squad.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by GMScud

A couple of things here-
Gibbs brought in Saunders to implement a system. He wouldn't have done that if he was satisfied his old school style would hold up nowadays. The TE is a huge part of a Saunders offense. And Cooley has been phenomenal. Just as Gonzalez was phenomenal when Saunders was in KC. I agree that Gibbs likes the TE to be a blocker, but Don Warren and Clint Didier caught their share of passes too. Cooley is a mismatch weapon on offense, and should be used as such. Gibbs drafted him to be his signature "h-back," and he's worked out as far as production is concerned, even though the h-back isn't around now. Now that the line is dinged we may need to use more two TE sets, with Cooley as a passing option and Yoder staying in to help block.

I disagree that Sellers can't block Strahan types. At 285lbs he is as big or bigger than most DE's in the league.

And despite the two injuries on the O-line, we are pretty healthy. We need to come out and pound this Lions squad.

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say he couldn't block him, I just said with 5 yards of strahan running at him...well, no one really will win that battle. Strahan will run over anyone when he has that much speed up. A stationary Sellers vs a full speed Strahan is not good...Sellers won't be in a situation where he's on the line to block him from scratch.
Sellers also is not the greatest of pass blockers. He's good, but not as good as he could be...he is more beneficial in the run game.

I do agree with most of what you said. I know we need to free up Cooley, but I'd rather have protection. So while I do agree with you, I disagree about your comments with Didier and Warren. Wasn't Warren named an honorary Hog? Anywho...Didier never had more than 41 catches and only had 2 other seasons of 30 or more in his career. Warren never had more than 31 catches. Cooley has had a 71 catch season and a 57 catch season. I say all that to show that both Didier and Warren were blockers first receivers 2nd.

[skinsfan69]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. It's time to start passing the ball more. Since Gibbs has been back how many times have we gone over 250 yards passing??? I don't care if JC is young or not. When I see Derek Anderson throwing for 4-5 TD's then there are no excuses. Why is it that our gameplan every week is "we must establish the run." Frankly it's getting old and IMO that crap doesn't work every week. Here are some questions I have for Joe Gibbs football.

How come we never pass to set up the run?
How come we are never in shotgun on 1st down?
How come we are only in shotgun on passing downs? Makes us kind of predictable. Don't ya think?
How come we never run the ball out of shotgun?
How come we don't roll the pocket anymore? Especially with a mobile QB.

[jsarno]

BTW
Cooley - 171 catches in 3.25 seasons.
Didier - 141 catches in 8 season.
Warren - 244 catches in 14 seasons.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by jsarno

BTW
Cooley - 171 catches in 3.25 seasons.
Didier - 141 catches in 8 season.
Warren - 244 catches in 14 seasons.

All I said was they caught their share of passes. You have to play to your strengths. Gibbs drafted Cooley before Saunders was even on our radar. He's been our most consistent weapon in the passing game. I know traditional "Gibbs" football has a block 1st TE, but he brought in Saunders for a reason, and the TE plays a very prominent role in his offense.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by GMScud

All I said was they caught their share of passes. You have to play to your strengths. Gibbs drafted Cooley before Saunders was even on our radar. He's been our most consistent weapon in the passing game. I know traditional "Gibbs" football has a block 1st TE, but he brought in Saunders for a reason, and the TE plays a very prominent role in his offense.

I do 100% agree with you there.
I will say this though...remember the Spurrier era here? The send everyone out to catch and skrew blocking era? I guess I am just more hesitant to put Cooley out to catch when our O line is hurting. I know we need him to catch and open up the offense, but we need blocking too.