Carlos Rogers Done For The Year

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Didn't you also say that Campbell was going to be worse than Aaron Brooks and would be traded by 2008 for a conditional 7th rounder? Sorry, but your post made me go and bust balls.

I do believe I said something of the sort, more so I said he would probably, or could be worse than Brooks, but I have always thought Brooks was horrible I was a little peeved that we were even thinking of giving away draft picks to get Campbell at the time I said it, it's awfully tough to be worse than Brooks. The trade scenario was me basically venting on how stupid Gibbs had been with draft up until then.

Campbell has a long way to go to prove that statement wrong, although I really like the kid as a person he seems to have a good head on his shoulders, and seems very humble, he still needs to step up and take control of this team, and the way Gibbs approaches things that is a long ways off, I am rooting for him but I think it's 60/40 that he doesn't become a bonified, can win a super bowl, franchise QB, we will see, I hope I am wrong!

[MTK]

Originally Posted by offiss

I do believe I said something of the sort, more so I said he would probably, or could be worse than Brooks, but I have always thought Brooks was horrible I was a little peeved that we were even thinking of giving away draft picks to get Campbell at the time I said it, it's awfully tough to be worse than Brooks. The trade scenario was me basically venting on how stupid Gibbs had been with draft up until then.

Campbell has a long way to go to prove that statement wrong, although I really like the kid as a person he seems to have a good head on his shoulders, and seems very humble, he still needs to step up and take control of this team, and the way Gibbs approaches things that is a long ways off, I am rooting for him but I think it's 60/40 that he doesn't become a bonified, can win a super bowl, franchise QB, we will see, I hope I am wrong!

Here is what you said:

http://www.redskinswarpath.com/nfl-d...html#post79412

And:
http://www.redskinswarpath.com/nfl-d...html#post79718

http://www.redskinswarpath.com/nfl-d...html#post79746

http://www.redskinswarpath.com/nfl-d...html#post79872

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Here is what you said:

http://www.redskinswarpath.com/nfl-d...html#post79412

And:
http://www.redskinswarpath.com/nfl-d...html#post79718

http://www.redskinswarpath.com/nfl-d...html#post79746

http://www.redskinswarpath.com/nfl-d...html#post79872

I sure wish I was wrong about those statements, hopefully I will be down the road, but I doubt it.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by offiss

I sure wish I was wrong about those statements, hopefully I will be down the road, but I doubt it.

After reading your old posts, you couldn't be more wrong about Campbell IMO. Ramsey better than Campbell? Ramsey was a loser at every level (HS/College/Pro). Campbell won championships in HS and College, and shows excellent poise for a guy only 16 starts into his career. Campbell put us in position to win the Giants game late, he would have won the Green Bay game if his WRs could catch a pass, and Gibbs game plan was ridiculously conservative against Arizona. I don't think you can bash Campbell for his performance last week against perhaps the greatest team we've seen in years. I'm very optimistic that Campbell has both the talent and demeanor to become a franchise QB, especially after Gibbs fixes issues on the OL after the season.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

After reading your old posts, you couldn't be more wrong about Campbell IMO. Ramsey better than Campbell? Ramsey was a loser at every level (HS/College/Pro). Campbell won championships in HS and College, and shows excellent poise for a guy only 16 starts into his career. Campbell put us in position to win the Giants game late, he would have won the Green Bay game if his WRs could catch a pass, and Gibbs game plan was ridiculously conservative against Arizona. I don't think you can bash Campbell for his performance last week against perhaps the greatest team we've seen in years. I'm very optimistic that Campbell has both the talent and demeanor to become a franchise QB, especially after Gibbs fixes issues on the OL after the season.

I agree about your point with Gibbs that is why I said it will be a long time before we really know, and yes he's had bad luck with his WR dropping passes no doubt, but can we say the teams we have played other than NE are any good, the league is very mediocre we should be top 4 and we can't say that. HS, college, etc I don't put a lot of stock in great QB's have been losers in college and great college Qb couldn't get themselves drafted, he needs to perform on this level that's what counts, NE is great offensively and very good defensively, Campbell into his 3rd season has to show more than he did on Sunday against anyone inc. NE. Funny I don't remember Ramsey having that bad of a day ever, not that we need to rehash the Ramsey debate anymore.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by offiss

I sure wish I was wrong about those statements, hopefully I will be down the road, but I doubt it.

So you still think JC is no better than Aaron Brooks?

You could at least admit you were wrong on Ramsey.

Hell, I can. I once thought he was going to be the future, now he's just another backup.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

So you still think JC is no better than Aaron Brooks?

You could at least admit you were wrong on Ramsey.

Hell, I can. I once thought he was going to be the future, now he's just another backup.

I already answered that question but I will again, Brooks IMO opinion was as bad as it gets, no starting QB's could be worse.

As far as Ramsey goes no need to apologize because Ramsey is better and was better for us than Brunell ever was, the fact that Gibbs and his senile approach to football couldn't see that only reinforces why he would stay with a QB in Brunell for 3 years who was as bad as it gets, funny 1/2 of Gibbs personnel moves have or are on there way to blowing up in his face and yet he was some how dead on about Ramsey, and even if Ramsey never starts again he was still better than anything we had at the time which was nothing in Brunell. Further more what has Campbell done [other than being anointed by Gibbs] to prove a thing? I know you have him crowned the next great QB, but I would rather wait until he actually does something, I am not saying he wont, I am saying he has to prove himself before I hang my hat on him unlike yourself. He faced a good defense against the Pats, GOOD, they are not the 85' Bears, and he was awful, I would say he has a way's to go. Now if you want to blame a lot of his performance on Gibbs and his inability to game plan? Fine I would go along with you on that one, barring that I saw a QB out there without a clue where to go with the football.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by offiss

I already answered that question but I will again, Brooks IMO opinion was as bad as it gets, no starting QB's could be worse.

As far as Ramsey goes no need to apologize because Ramsey is better and was better for us than Brunell ever was, the fact that Gibbs and his senile approach to football couldn't see that only reinforces why he would stay with a QB in Brunell for 3 years who was as bad as it gets, funny 1/2 of Gibbs personnel moves have or are on there way to blowing up in his face and yet he was some how dead on about Ramsey, and even if Ramsey never starts again he was still better than anything we had at the time which was nothing in Brunell. Further more what has Campbell done [other than being anointed by Gibbs] to prove a thing? I know you have him crowned the next great QB, but I would rather wait until he actually does something, I am not saying he wont, I am saying he has to prove himself before I hang my hat on him unlike yourself. He faced a good defense against the Pats, GOOD, they are not the 85' Bears, and he was awful, I would say he has a way's to go. Now if you want to blame a lot of his performance on Gibbs and his inability to game plan? Fine I would go along with you on that one, barring that I saw a QB out there without a clue where to go with the football.

C'mon dude you said the pick was "utter incompetence" and that JC was "mediocre", "not 1st round material", and "This kid isn't McNabb, McNair, Culpepper, Leftwich, and here's the scary part I don't believe he's even Aaron Brooks" and last not not least "i will be right about this kid as his future unfolds, but don't worry we will trade him for a conditional 6th or 7th rd. pick in 3 year's".

Pretty strong statements there. Nice way of backing off your stance now.

So I guess Mangini was wrong on Ramsey too since he didn't think he was any better than Pennington or Clemens?

As far as Gibbs' hits vs. misses, if we laid them all out I'd be willing to bet that the number of good moves would easily outnumber the bad ones. There's no way it would be 50/50. The only glaring misses that come to mind are Lloyd, Arch, Patten, and Barrow. And with Patten and Barrow injuries came into play so an argument could be made that if they stayed healthy they were moves that could have worked out. If you can name more I'd love to hear them.

I haven't "crowned" JC anything yet, not sure where you are getting that. I think he's a promising young QB and I like the move a lot more today vs. when he was drafted. As far as what happened this past Sunday I wouldn't put too much stock in it. That was his 14th career start and Belichick's defense over the years has made many, many QB's with far more experience look bad. Hell, his 'D' has made Manning look bad at times so I'm not going to get too worked up over Campbell's struggles especially considering the whole team struggled.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

C'mon dude you said the pick was "utter incompetence" and that JC was "mediocre", "not 1st round material", and "This kid isn't McNabb, McNair, Culpepper, Leftwich, and here's the scary part I don't believe he's even Aaron Brooks" and last not not least "i will be right about this kid as his future unfolds, but don't worry we will trade him for a conditional 6th or 7th rd. pick in 3 year's".

Pretty strong statements there. Nice way of backing off your stance now.

So I guess Mangini was wrong on Ramsey too since he didn't think he was any better than Pennington or Clemens?

As far as Gibbs' hits vs. misses, if we laid them all out I'd be willing to bet that the number of good moves would easily outnumber the bad ones. There's no way it would be 50/50. The only glaring misses that come to mind are Lloyd, Arch, Patten, and Barrow. And with Patten and Barrow injuries came into play so an argument could be made that if they stayed healthy they were moves that could have worked out. If you can name more I'd love to hear them.

I haven't "crowned" JC anything yet, not sure where you are getting that. I think he's a promising young QB and I like the move a lot more today vs. when he was drafted. As far as what happened this past Sunday I wouldn't put too much stock in it. That was his 14th career start and Belichick's defense over the years has made many, many QB's with far more experience look bad. Hell, his 'D' has made Manning look bad at times so I'm not going to get too worked up over Campbell's struggles especially considering the whole team struggled.

True about there defense and making QB's look bad, but 52 nothing bad late in the game, there are different levels of bad, and Campbell pegged the needle. Further more I wouldn't base a judgement on one game that wouldn't be fair, but he really hasen't done a whole lot to show me he's the goods so far, but I will say I hope he gets a fair shot unlike Ramsey.


No need to back off at this point, the fact is I don't ever see this kid becoming a bonafide SB type QB, EVER! But if I start saying it now I would never here the end of it, personally I was just passing time until it's official you know just like Portis, Brunell, Arrington, etc. and so on. Sorry but if you want it straight there it is, lets face it we have a 3rd year QB who is still learning how to find an open WR, he will be ready for retirement by the time he consistently is able to find one. I do like him seems like a class act, and I will root for him to prove me 1000% wrong, but I don't think so we are stuck with a run of the mill average QB. That wouldn't be so bad if we picked him in the 2nd or 3rd rd where he belonged instead of trading away a lot of picks to get him as if we were drafting Elway or some other franchise type QB, this kid is not a franchise QB, although Gibbs didn't need franchise QB's in the past, but he sure needs one now.

I don't know about Mangini, do you think he has been right about Pennington? Something tells me the benching this week kind of says no.

Further more I would like to think Shanahan knows a little about QB's, and to bring Ramsey in behind a 2nd year starter when it is very conceivable that he might need to give Cutler a breather now and then as he learns, should tell you the guy sees something in him to give him a 2 year contract.


Funny you use 14 starts as an excuse for this kid yet Ramsey probably didn't have that with us, and Ramsey hadn't performed any worse than Campbell, but you know it's the teams fault and not Campbells inability to convert 3rd downs? The bottom line here is whether or not Ramsey will ever pan out remains to seen, but lets face it if Gibbs sang his praises instead of the teachers pet in Brunell you would still be slobbering all over him, it comes down to what gibbs tells you to think, unfortunately you still think your listening to a 3 time SB winner and that coach has long left the building, we have a coach now living off that rep while he continues to make us look like the laughing stock of the league, because that is what we are at this point lets not sugar coat it!

Do you really want to know how to make this kid pan out? I will tell you, we need to build a monster O-line to limit what Campbell has to do, so that the burden of winning is not square on his shoulders, sounds a lot like Gibbs first go round doesn't it, the fact is regardless of what notoriety our current line has [when healthy] they do not push players off the LOS, that's what we had in the 80's, and that's what we don't have now, Gibbs needs to recognize this and bring that type of O-lineman in, unfortunately he hasn't yet and I doubt he will devote the efforts necessary to make that happen.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by offiss

I do believe I said something of the sort, more so I said he would probably, or could be worse than Brooks, but I have always thought Brooks was horrible I was a little peeved that we were even thinking of giving away draft picks to get Campbell at the time I said it, it's awfully tough to be worse than Brooks. The trade scenario was me basically venting on how stupid Gibbs had been with draft up until then.

Campbell has a long way to go to prove that statement wrong, although I really like the kid as a person he seems to have a good head on his shoulders, and seems very humble, he still needs to step up and take control of this team, and the way Gibbs approaches things that is a long ways off, I am rooting for him but I think it's 60/40 that he doesn't become a bonified, can win a super bowl, franchise QB, we will see, I hope I am wrong!

Fair enough.