AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!

[skinsfan69]

"If you can run it, draw people to the line of scrimmage, then you can pass it. They go hand in hand."

No, they don't go hand in hand. Not anymore Joe. This is the 80's early 90 mentality. Gibbs is never ever going to adjust to today's NFL. When is this guy ever going to realize that it is a passing league now? The rules beg you to pass it. DB's can't even breathe on the WR's yet we don't have one single wr with a passing TD. You should be able to pass it with the guys you brought in here w/out having to run it all the time. Same old crap.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

"If you can run it, draw people to the line of scrimmage, then you can pass it. They go hand in hand."

No, they don't go hand in hand. Not anymore Joe. This is the 80's early 90 mentality. Gibbs is never ever going to adjust to today's NFL. When is this guy ever going to realize that it is a passing league now? The rules beg you to pass it. DB's can't even breathe on the WR's yet we don't have one single wr with a passing TD. You should be able to pass it with the guys you brought in here w/out having to run it all the time. Same old crap.

Tell that to teams like the Steelers and Jags who still play a smashmouth, run first style of play.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Tell that to teams like the Steelers and Jags who still play a smashmouth, run first style of play.

Or to our 11th ranked 2005 offense which ran the ball over everyone and their momma. I believe Gibbs called the plays for that offense.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Or to our 11th ranked 2005 offense which ran the ball over everyone and their momma. I believe Gibbs called the plays for that offense.

Oh my god. Back to 05. We beat a bunch of teams that were playing with back up QB's. I'm not taking anything away from that but we got alot of nice breaks with other teams injuries. But the Dallas and Giants game were legit.

But in the end that 11th ranked offense couldn't even get 50 yards passing in a playoff game and had to have the defense win the game. That is why Sanders has a job here.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Oh my god. Back to 05. We beat a bunch of teams that were playing with back up QB's. I'm not taking anything away from that but we got alot of nice breaks with other teams injuries. But the Dallas and Giants game were legit.

But in the end that 11th ranked offense couldn't even get 50 yards passing in a playoff game and had to have the defense win the game. That is why Sanders has a job here.

What does an opponents' QB have to do with running all over a defense? And how is it that you attribute other teams' losses to their injuries, but you don't attribute our woes on offense during the 2005 playoffs to our injuries (e.g., Portis)? Why the double-standard?

As for the notion that teams must field pass-first offenses in order to be successful, I beg to differ. As others have pointed out, look no further than to teams like the Steelers, Jags, Titans, Bears, Falcons, Ravens, etc.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

What does an opponents' QB have to do with running all over a defense? And how is it that you attribute other teams' losses to their injuries, but you don't attribute our woes on offense during the 2005 playoffs to our injuries (e.g., Portis)? Why the double-standard?

As for the notion that teams must field pass-first offenses in order to be successful, I beg to differ. As others have pointed out, look no further than to teams like the Steelers, Jags, Titans, Bears, Falcons, Ravens, etc.

You are missing my point. Read my post to Matty.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

You are missing my point. Read my post to Matty.

That addressed a different point. Your original post seemed to state that teams pass to set up the run or that run, run, run offenses can't make it in the NFL.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Or to our 11th ranked 2005 offense which ran the ball over everyone and their momma. I believe Gibbs called the plays for that offense.

Don't forget to go along with that smashmouth style, we also had a pretty good passing game. Brunell was the 3rd rated passer in the NFC that year, and likely should have gone to the probowl, but they had to make room for the wonderful person that his Michael Vick, the 14th rated passer in the NFC, who was almost as efficient as Josh McCown.

This team just seems to be better on offense with an efficent running game, although the passing game needs to be clicking also.

In the first half of 2006, the rushing game was terrible, but the passing game kept us close (which is good because we were chasing because we were running the ball awful and playing crappy defense) against bad teams. Then we benched our QB and our passing game, but our rushing game found itself.

This year, the idea was going to be to put it back together like in 2005, but on the contrary, both aspect are crappy although for entirely different reasons.

The offense may very well need the running game to come back for the passing game to be effective. Our timing routes don't work. Period. I have no problem with the coaches trying to reestablish the running game as long as they try something new. The old crap from the last 6 games isn't going to work, and we are wasting plays trying it.

A QB's best friend is a competant running game, and Campbell doesn't have it right now for the first time in his college or pro career.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Don't forget to go along with that smashmouth style, we also had a pretty good passing game. Brunell was the 3rd rated passer in the NFC that year, and likely should have gone to the probowl, but they had to make room for the wonderful person that his Michael Vick, the 14th rated passer in the NFC, who was almost as efficient as Josh McCown.

This team just seems to be better on offense with an efficent running game, although the passing game needs to be clicking also.

In the first half of 2006, the rushing game was terrible, but the passing game kept us close (which is good because we were chasing because we were running the ball awful and playing crappy defense) against bad teams. Then we benched our QB and our passing game, but our rushing game found itself.

This year, the idea was going to be to put it back together like in 2005, but on the contrary, both aspect are crappy although for entirely different reasons.

The offense may very well need the running game to come back for the passing game to be effective. Our timing routes don't work. Period. I have no problem with the coaches trying to reestablish the running game as long as they try something new. The old crap from the last 6 games isn't going to work, and we are wasting plays trying it.

A QB's best friend is a competant running game, and Campbell doesn't have it right now for the first time in his college or pro career.

The 2005 offense stunk when it mattered most and that is why Sanders is here.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

The 2005 offense stunk when it mattered most and that is why Sanders is here.

The 11th ranked offense was running over people left and right. That we faced teams with injured QBs (i.e., Rams and Eagles) has nothing to do with the offense's ability to run on opposing defenses. So it shouldn't come as a surprise when our starting tailback (who put up over 1,5000 yards) and our best run-blocking lineman (Randy Thomas) go down. So why is it that you don't consider our injuries as a defense for anything, but you make excuses for other teams' injuries?

The offense left a lot to be desired, but it was definitely good enough.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

The 11th ranked offense was running over people left and right. That we faced teams with injured QBs (i.e., Rams and Eagles) has nothing to do with the offense's ability to run on opposing defenses. So it shouldn't come as a surprise when our starting tailback (who put up over 1,5000 yards) and our best run-blocking lineman (Randy Thomas) go down. So why is it that you don't consider our injuries as a defense for anything, but you make excuses for other teams' injuries?

The offense left a lot to be desired, but it was definitely good enough.

Well apparently it was not good enough. It wasn't good enough in the playoffs was it? Is that the goal now? To just make the playoffs?

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Tell that to teams like the Steelers and Jags who still play a smashmouth, run first style of play.

How many playoff games has Jacksonville won since Del Rio took over with his style of play? None. That style only gets you so far in today's NFL.. Especially in the AFC.

Regarding Pittsburgh, yes they play smashmouth BUT they get big plays out of the passing game all the time. 15 passing TD's this year. Only NE, Dallas and Clev. have more. They get the ball to the wideouts, Ward and Holmes.

Just look around in the NFC. The teams that pass it the best just happen to have the best records. Dallas, Seattle, NYG, GB, and Det. Even NO who looks like they are going to be in the playoff hunt. All of them can pass it. We can't and that's why we probably are not going anywhere.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

How many playoff games has Jacksonville won since Del Rio took over with his style of play? None. That style only gets you so far in today's NFL.. Especially in the AFC.

Regarding Pittsburgh, yes they play smashmouth BUT they get big plays out of the passing game all the time. 15 passing TD's this year. Only NE, Dallas and Clev. have more. They get the ball to the wideouts, Ward and Holmes.

Just look around in the NFC. The teams that pass it the best just happen to have the best records. Dallas, Seattle, NYG, GB, and Det. Even NO who looks like they are going to be in the playoff hunt. All of them can pass it. We can't and that's why we probably are not going anywhere.

How do you think they set up the big plays?

As for those teams you mentioned only Detroit and Green Bay don't run the ball well, and even Detroit has been coming on as of late. You simply can't discount the importance of being able to the run ball. If Green Bay doesn't find a running game I don't care how well they can throw it their inability to run it will catch up with them come playoff time.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

How do you think they set up the big plays?

As for those teams you mentioned only Detroit and Green Bay don't run the ball well, and even Detroit has been coming on as of late. You simply can't discount the importance of being able to the run ball. If Green Bay doesn't find a running game I don't care how well they can throw it their inability to run it will catch up with them come playoff time.

In no way do I discount it. Not at all. But I just don't think it's life or death like Gibbs and Bugel do. That is why they are not in touch with today's NFL. If they would just look around they would see what the good teams are doing and adjust. That's why I'm so down on Gibbs. He was simply the master at adjusting his 1st go around. Who was better at adjusting than Gibbs 1? No one.

If he would just look at the line he would know that they can't play smash mouth. Everyone knows we are going to run to the left side, and Fabini and Wade can not run block.

I remember the 89 team. Just barely missed the playoffs cause of massive injuries. The rb's were all beat up and he just said I'm going to put it on Monk, Clark and Sanders. That was the year all 3 went over 1,000 yards. How many times has that ever been done in the NFL? 2-3 times maybe?? So this is the stuff I'm talking about. The guy knows offensive football. He was the first one to come out with the bunch sets and one back stuff. But he is so damn stubborn about opening up the offense and putting it on the WR's who are suppose to be the strength of the team. Plus he's got Sanders here. Yet we still can't score points and we are 27th or 28th in offense? We have all these wr's and a deep ball thrower yet not one single wr has a td pass this year??? If I were Snyder I would be so damn pissed it's not even funny.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

In no way do I discount it. Not at all. But I just don't think it's life or death like Gibbs and Bugel do. That is why they are not in touch with today's NFL. If they would just look around they would see what the good teams are doing and adjust. That's why I'm so down on Gibbs. He was simply the master at adjusting his 1st go around. Who was better at adjusting than Gibbs 1? No one.

If he would just look at the line he would know that they can't play smash mouth. Everyone knows we are going to run to the left side, and Fabini and Wade can not run block.

I remember the 89 team. Just barely missed the playoffs cause of massive injuries. The rb's were all beat up and he just said I'm going to put it on Monk, Clark and Sanders. That was the year all 3 went over 1,000 yards. How many times has that ever been done in the NFL? 2-3 times maybe?? So this is the stuff I'm talking about. The guy knows offensive football. He was the first one to come out with the bunch sets and one back stuff. But he is so damn stubborn about opening up the offense and putting it on the WR's who are suppose to be the strength of the team. Plus he's got Sanders here. Yet we still can't score points and we are 27th or 28th in offense? We have all these wr's and a deep ball thrower yet not one single wr has a td pass this year??? If I were Snyder I would be so damn pissed it's not even funny.

That's a fair point. Good post.

People often forget that Gibbs was originally known as a pass-first coach. Only with Riggins and the talent he had along the O-line did he finally decide to go smashmouth. Bottom line is that he adapted to the personnel that was given to him. Something he needs to do now.

Back in 1992, in the playoff game against Minnesota, there was a stat totalling all of the plays Gibbs had run since 1981. It was perfectly balanced, but with one more pass attempt than running attempt.

No one is suggesting giving up the run. Of course you have to try to run it. But sometimes the passing game can open up the running game. I don't think it would be out of the question to tilt the play selection to something like 55-60% pass to 40-45% run.

I don't think it would signal the apocalypse if they tried that.