Jason Whitlock column on Taylor

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by dgack

Just like Deion, what Whitlock is saying may be true, but it doesn't mean it's relevant or appropriate right now.

I read the following post by WaPo's Eugene Robinson on their forums and I thought it summed up my feelings perfectly about 90% of the "analysis" that journalists have been spouting in the wake of Sean's death:

Now that's a great article. And ditto on summing up my feelings.

[70Chip]

First of all, I followed the 2005 case from Florida very closely and I have never seen anything that would convince me that Taylor brandished a firearm. That was the claim of the men who had stolen his property and had prior criminal records. If people prefer to take their word over Taylor's, then they have taken sides and in doing so are open to criticism. Second, I'm not sure that having your car shot at is an indication of moral turpitude. Especially considering that that shooting was in all likelihood perpetrated by the same people mentioned above.

The other things that are mentioned against Taylor are missing the Rookie symposium, being charged with DWI (later dropped), and strangest of all, the fact that he has been fined by the league seven times for illegal hits and for spitting on that guy in the playoff game.

Taking those in order, missing the rookie orientation was a mistake. It was an immature thing to do, but this country is packed from sea to shining sea with 20 year old morons. Hardly unforgivable.

Second, the DWI also indicates a lack of judgement, but again, one that many have made. Sonny Jurgensen got one in the 1980s when he was well into his forties. Was he inviting disaster? Ditto John Riggins. Could #44 be next? Being pulled over on the beltway near Tysons Corner on suspicion of DWI is hardly indicative of a gangster or criminal lifestyle.

Third, Taylor is a hard nosed defensive player. At times, especially early in his career, he had a tendency to cross the line but I've never thought of him as a dirty player. Ken Houston played like that. Roy Williams plays like that. Butkis and Neitcke played like that and when they are discussed it's folklore. It's cute. No one imputes criminality to them because of it.

Lastly, the spitting incident was a time when Sean went too far. How unfortunate. In terms of the league, though, I don't know how unusual it was. Chris Samuels was spit on in a game earlier this year. Football is a tough game. I don't think it's fair when you are creating a list of offenses against Taylor in order to imply that he is a thug to include things that happened on the football field, unless they are of the Albert Haynesworth variety and I don't think Sean has ever done anything like that. Some networks have decided to conflate the two.

[ChuckPrez]

Whitlock is at it again spewing irrelevant bull just because he hates a genre of music. *SMH*

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by ChuckPrez

Whitlock is at it again spewing irrelevant bull just because he hates a genre of music. *SMH*

I seriously doubt he hates it. Its just it's taken a turn for the worse since the 80s and early 90s. While there are some rappers who rap about things OTHER than bitches and hos and my 9. There aren't many. I mean you can't fight fire with fire. This inner city violence and violence among the Black community isn't gonna go away while there are still people promoting it.

[JWsleep]

If this tragedy helps to bring attention to and helps to stop the epidemic of black on black violence, then I am all for it. That would be the one positive I see in this senseless act of violence. I do not want Sean to be misrepresented or slandered, don't get me wrong. But sometimes it takes a tragedy like this to get people to act. And Whitlock, as well as the others writing this kind of piece, are (all?) themselves black men. They are best positioned to address this issue, and if they don't do it now, the shock of the event will wear off, and the nation will go back to simply ignoring as just another statistic the next black man gunned down.

And even if we learn tomorrow that Sean was murdered by a crazed white female or a jealous eskimo, it would still be ok to make this point. 12,000 murders in the US last year, and a disproportionate number of them black men on black men. I learned that statistic yesterday by reading about Sean's murder. It's a staggering statistic--3 times the number of US troops killed in the entire Iraq war so far. And we are numb to it--it goes by with basically no comment. If the Taylor Tragedy helps wake us up, then that is a good thing, IMHO.

[JWsleep]

PS I am not endorsing Whitlock's claims about the causes of this violence--that is a matter of debate, no doubt. But raising the issue at all is not out of line.

[JWsleep]

My bad. It was not 12, 000 killed last year. It was 17, 000, 10, 000 by fire arms. That's more than 4 times the number of troops in Iraq killed.

washingtonpost.com

[djnemo65]

I love Hiphop - in fact I wrote my senior thesis in college on it's early development in New York - so I tend to get defensive when people attempt to blame it for social problems which exist independent of it. The problem is this: Hiphop wasn't foisted on the black community, it grew organically in response to worsening economic conditions and declining urban standards of living.

While Hiphop may have provided a style and discourse for articulating the everyday struggle, it didn't create the struggle. The problems in black communities are, were, and will continue to be economic first.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

I love Hiphop - in fact I wrote my senior thesis in college on it's early development in New York - so I tend to get defensive when people attempt to blame it for social problems which exist independent of it. The problem is this: Hiphop wasn't foisted on the black community, it grew organically in response to worsening economic conditions and declining urban standards of living.

While Hiphop may have provided a style and discourse for articulating the everyday struggle, it didn't create the struggle. The problems in black communities are, were, and will continue to be economic first.

Okay I'm not crapping on hip hop, cause I'm Black and I've grown up in not the best conditions, so I understand where it's coming from and of course the base of all problems are economic.

And yes, old school hip hop DID focus on economic struggles. I respect old school hip hop. Public Enemy, Grandmaster Flash, Run DMC, I'm all with that. But I really don't think the bitches and the hos and waving my tech-9 around have anything to do with growing up in poverty.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

While Hiphop may have provided a style and discourse for articulating the everyday struggle, it didn't create the struggle. The problems in black communities are, were, and will continue to be economic first.

No but it has since glorified it. It promotes the types of behavior that have shaped a culture of violence and crime. I fail to see how so many people are blind to this. Whether one likes hip-hop for its musical value or not it is ludicrcous to me that they can't see this.

And to argue that the problem is solely based in economics is to ignore evidence to the contrary. I doubt you'll find anyone who would argue the the problem BEGAN as a socioeconomic imbalance. And most would surely agree that the socioeconomic disparities remain a strong force. But the culture of violence and crime is driven by many factors. One of which is the reality that in the black community hip-hop glorifies it. Maybe hip-hop was born out of this "struggle" and simply reflects what has grown naturally but it has become a driving force in promoting the longevity of this negative culture and something needs to be done about that.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

No but it has since glorified it. It promotes the types of behavior that have shaped a culture of violence and crime. I fail to see how so many people are blind to this. Whether one likes hip-hop for its musical value or not it is ludicrcous to me that they can't see this.

And to argue that the problem is solely based in economics is to ignore evidence to the contrary. I doubt you'll find anyone who would argue the the problem BEGAN as a socioeconomic imbalance. And most would surely agree that the socioeconomic disparities remain a strong force. But the culture of violence and crime is driven by many factors. One of which is the reality that in the black community hip-hop glorifies it. Maybe hip-hop was born out of this "struggle" and simply reflects what has grown naturally but it has become a driving force in promoting the longevity of this negative culture and something needs to be done about that.

Nice post.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

No but it has since glorified it. It promotes the types of behavior that have shaped a culture of violence and crime. I fail to see how so many people are blind to this. Whether one likes hip-hop for its musical value or not it is ludicrcous to me that they can't see this.

And to argue that the problem is solely based in economics is to ignore evidence to the contrary. I doubt you'll find anyone who would argue the the problem BEGAN as a socioeconomic imbalance. And most would surely agree that the socioeconomic disparities remain a strong force. But the culture of violence and crime is driven by many factors. One of which is the reality that in the black community hip-hop glorifies it. Maybe hip-hop was born out of this "struggle" and simply reflects what has grown naturally but it has become a driving force in promoting the longevity of this negative culture and something needs to be done about that.

There's no doubt that a lot of Hiphop music glorifies the worst criminal aspects of contemporary urban life (obviously not all Hiphop, or even most of it, I would argue) but I disagree that it's a driving force, however you are defining that. America is a violent media culture, from our thirst for action movies and realistic first person shooters to torture-porn movies like Saw, to single out Hiphop is absurd. As Jay Z so eloquently says on his new album, "Scarface the movie did more than Scarface the rapper to me/ Still that ain't to blame for half the shit that's happened to me."

By the way, violent crime has actually declined in urban communities over the last 10 years (in spite of increased media coverage). Commensurate with the continued commercial rise of Hiphop. So again, I just am not convinced that negative Hiphop is a driving force in crime.

[pg86]

One more thing damnit.


IF music can talk to you and it glorifies so much murder (BTW I listen to rock not rap)

Why not blame it when and if they do catch the person that did this. Then you can go and dig up Tupac or Biggie, or whoever it is that is alive today saying shoot this die fucker die and charge them with murder?

Im sorry but when I hear crap like that I scream get real and Bullshit!.

Ok I'll admit I listen to alot of emo...so if some kid cut his wrists because Hawthorne Heights said cut my writs and black my eyes, can we blame them for his self destructive behavior? Think about it if you still don't get where Im getting at here Im saying we can't blame a musical artist or a genre of music for peoples Deaths. Humanity is simply that cruel and they seek to hurt one another!

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by pg86

One more thing damnit.


IF music can talk to you and it glorifies so much murder (BTW I listen to rock not rap)

Why not blame it when and if they do catch the person that did this. Then you can go and dig up Tupac or Biggie, or whoever it is that is alive today saying shoot this die fucker die and charge them with murder?

Im sorry but when I hear crap like that I scream get real and Bullshit!.

Ok I'll admit I listen to alot of emo...so if some kid cut his wrists because Hawthorne Heights said cut my writs and black my eyes, can we blame them for his self destructive behavior? Think about it if you still don't get where Im getting at here Im saying we can't blame a musical artist or a genre of music for peoples Deaths. Humanity is simply that cruel and they seek to hurt one another!

But we also can't ignore the violence that is routinely glorified by the hip hop culture. It is not the only reason for black on black violence, but it is a factor. Just as surely as violent images coming out of Hollywood and video games are factors for violence in general. The biggest factor may be the openly available supply of guns in this country. What disgusts me most is that the frequent murders that we see on the evening news have almost been accepted as routine. There is a serious lack of social outrage, and the "don't snitch" mentality certainly doesn't help.

[Crazyhorse1]

Originally Posted by pg86

One more thing damnit.


IF music can talk to you and it glorifies so much murder (BTW I listen to rock not rap)

Why not blame it when and if they do catch the person that did this. Then you can go and dig up Tupac or Biggie, or whoever it is that is alive today saying shoot this die fucker die and charge them with murder?

Im sorry but when I hear crap like that I scream get real and Bullshit!.

Ok I'll admit I listen to alot of emo...so if some kid cut his wrists because Hawthorne Heights said cut my writs and black my eyes, can we blame them for his self destructive behavior? Think about it if you still don't get where Im getting at here Im saying we can't blame a musical artist or a genre of music for peoples Deaths. Humanity is simply that cruel and they seek to hurt one another!

The cultural phenomena that drives our kids to say "F... you" instead of "Ma'am" and "Sir" is also driving our children to death in the streets. It may be now that the effects are felt more in the black community than in the white community, but sociopathic meanness is infecting the communities of people in the U.S.A. of all races. There's a general lack of respect for human beings and human life.

It doesn't help that the country has descended again to the death penalty, which makes taking a life seem acceptable behavior, or that a moron has lead us into a murderous and elective war complete with cluster bombs and torture, previously thought unthinkable; or that the justice system is a sham; or that our politicians are utterly corrupt and/or shameless liars; or that religious leaders are sexual perverts.

Rolle says that Taylor was afraid in Miami on an on-going basis and that the murder was connected to jealousy of Taylor and anger against him because he was stepping away socially from former unsavory friends.

I don't know, of course, but that's the most likely senario to me. If I were a police investigator, that's the first possibility I would pursue.

As for the larger question, I don't know exactly what to do to turn back this avalanche of meanness coming at us. I do think that the current amoral and huckster character of our traditional institutions such as church and state and schools and the Bill of Rights (as well as equal rights) are a big part of our children's loss of respect for us and that's a big part of why they're no longer saying Ma'am and Sir.

They're blaming us for the mess we've made. And we have. We didn't kill Sean Taylor, but we created the monsters who did.