Jason Whitlock column on Taylor

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

I'd have no problem at all with any individual trying their hand at politics regardless of their views. Everyone should have the chance to be heard. A good idea can come from everywhere. HOWEVER- I do not believe that an individual can make their fortune off of misfortune and still be a driving force for good. It just sends the wrong message. When I say makes a fortune off of misfortune I'm referring to glamorizing violence and cruelty to make a buck. Make no mistake, it is being glamorized.

As for a viable solution, if I had all the answers I'd be giving them to you. But I will say this. I think the answer involves a lot of education. I think it involves alot of individuals in these communities stepping up and saying that they will not accept a culture of violence for their children. I believe it takes consumers being responsible about where they put their money. Basically, it takes dedication to improvement.

I don't know if you were able to read my last couple of posts, but those would be my reply to this.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

I don't know if you were able to read my last couple of posts, but those would be my reply to this.

Yeah, I just edited my post to reply to that, we were playing the posting equivalent of phone tag.

Honestly, what you talk about hip hop representing is something I think anyone with a somewhat open mind can respect. I just think that all of those positive messages are hidden behind a layer of filth. And that's a shame.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Edit- I just read your latest post. IF violence is not a key element in hip hop, if it is only what the salesmen sell, then don't you think it is important that the positive forces in hip hop start getting the pub that all of the thugs are currently receiving? Personally, I am not a fan of rap music because of the message, not the delivery. I don't envy those in economically difficult situations, nor those in prison, nor those making money selling drugs. That may be only the vocal minority in the hip hop community espousing those views but as a very casual observer, that is what I am hearing.

Don't mistake the business of hip hop with the culture of hip hop. That's what I mean by salesmen. And that's the only message you're getting with hip hop through those salesmen.

If you really feel strongly about hip hop's influence then find some solutions. I'm not saying it's right, but there's no real organization because it is driven by the hip hop business industry. But make no mistake, hip hop is not going away anytime soon - it's actually getting stronger and gaining more influence.

One other thing, some of those answers that you have come up with are general solutions to any social issues - education, community help, leadership. I guess that's what's needed - but how do you do/initiate this?

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

If you really feel strongly about hip hop's influence then find some solutions. I'm not saying it's right, but there's no real organization because it is driven by the hip hop business industry. But make no mistake, hip hop is not going away anytime soon - it's actually getting stronger and gaining more influence.

One other thing, some of those answers that you have come up with are general solutions to any social issues - education, community help, leadership. I guess that's what's needed - but how do you do/initiate this?

They are general solutions, because it's a general problem. The only way to initiate it is to openly discuss it like we are right now. Without attacking race and other issues that truly are not the root of the problem. The only way to affect any real change in america is with money, let's be honest. If consumers started spending their money on hip hop artists with a positive message (Common is one of the few that i can think of...) then the industry will gradually change. It's going to take STRONG, credible community leaders though.

[warriorzpath]

Those that think that murder and violence are the poster themes of hip hop, just think twice. That's only what the salesmen sell to you and that's how you get interested. If you really want to know what hip hop is about - dig deeper. But only if you want to- if you don't, I can't help you. It's like someone thinking that Michael Vick and Pacman Jones are the role models and are the current representatives of the NFL.

[JWsleep]

Hip hop is flexible enough--and powerful enough--to glorify things other than thugs, gangstas and ho's. Many people have mentioned Public Enemy--you can produce great music with a positive and intelligent message and not be a sell-out. (I certainly don't agree with everything PE preached, but they showed it could be done.)

On perseverance: It depends on what one is persevering for. If "keeping it real" means remaining a thug and a criminal in the face of society, then I do not support it. If "keeping it real" means finding a way to retain your cultural identity while succeeding as a community, who could be against it? That's the issue. Bill Cosby and Jason Whitlock are not telling people to abandon their culture; rather, they are telling people to give up those elements that are systematically destroying many neighborhoods with fear, violence, ignorance, and despair. I do not believe that the relevant segment of African-American (and hip-hop) culture would be any less real, dynamic, powerful, or persevering if it abandoned the glorification of thugs.

BTW, how much money has the (largely white owned and controlled) recording industry made off of thug-oriented rap? My opinion is that, often, "keeping it real" means "getting paid," no matter what the cost to the community.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by JWsleep

Hip hop is flexible enough--and powerful enough--to glorify things other than thugs, gangstas and ho's. Many people have mentioned Public Enemy--you can produce great music with a positive and intelligent message and not be a sell-out. (I certainly don't agree with everything PE preached, but they showed it could be done.)

On perseverance: It depends on what one is persevering for. If "keeping it real" means remaining a thug and a criminal in the face of society, then I do not support it. If "keeping it real" means finding a way to retain your cultural identity while succeeding as a community, who could be against it? That's the issue. Bill Cosby and Jason Whitlock are not telling people to abandon their culture; rather, they are telling people to give up those elements that are systematically destroying many neighborhoods with fear, violence, ignorance, and despair. I do not believe that the relevant segment of African-American (and hip-hop) culture would be any less real, dynamic, powerful, or persevering if it abandoned the glorification of thugs.

BTW, how much money has the (largely white owned and controlled) recording industry made off of thug-oriented rap? My opinion is that, often, "keeping it real" means "getting paid," no matter what the cost to the community.

Yes, completely, and you could make that arguement about a hell of a lot of industries. A lot of people getting rich off of other's misfortune.

[BleedBurgundy]

For the record, this is why I said subculture:

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

For the record, this is why I said subculture:

I agree with the definition but I would take away subgroup(replace it with group) and sub from subculture.

[FRPLG]

warriorzpath,

I think we mostly disagree on these issues but I can respect what you have said because you have stated it well, with passion and intelligence. One thing you have said several times is that people shouldn't be identifying issues without coming up with solutions. I do think that to be slightly naive. It is disingenuous to ridicule someone for pointing out a problem without offering a solution. It is also lacking much thought because if finding the solutions to problems was as easy as identifying them then we'd probably have very few problems in this world. Inevitably though most problesm require much more thought and dilligence in solving them rather than simply seeing them. I have no problem with Whitlock pointing them out. It is the first step to solving the problem.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

warriorzpath,

I think we mostly disagree on these issues but I can respect what you have said because you have stated it well, with passion and intelligence. One thing you have said several times is that people shouldn't be identifying issues without coming up with solutions. I do think that to be slightly naive. It is disingenuous to ridicule someone for pointing out a problem without offering a solution. It is also lacking much thought because if finding the solutions to problems was as easy as identifying them then we'd probably have very few problems in this world. Inevitably though most problesm require much more thought and dilligence in solving them rather than simply seeing them. I have no problem with Whitlock pointing them out. It is the first step to solving the problem.

I think I found one good first option (trying to meet with a hip hop leader). I disagree with not being responsible enough to find solutions, when you point out problems. I do not respect his views because he provides the problems, but doesn't have anything to add or contribute to solve them.

If he already has this much visibility then he must have some kind of influence.

[BleedBurgundy]

The first step to fixing a problem is identifying that there is a problem. I do believe we can all agree on that. The next step is convincing others that there is a problem... only then can you find a solution.

[Dirtbag59]

Man, thats deep.

[BleedBurgundy]

Didn't mean to sound like confucious.

[Hog1]

Jason Whitlock is on XXX with John Riggins right now