Jason Whitlock column on Taylor

[BleedBurgundy]

Technically, i think Hip Hop would best be defined as a sub-culture, but I get what you're saying. But I look back to Brudlee's earlier comment in this thread. There wouldn't be today's version of Hip Hop if there were not a pre-existing hopelessness and lack of positive leadership in the urban community.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Technically, i think Hip Hop would best be defined as a sub-culture, but I get what you're saying. But I look back to Brudlee's earlier comment in this thread. There wouldn't be today's version of Hip Hop if there were not a pre-existing hopelessness and lack of positive leadership in the urban community.

First off, I respectfully disagree with your statement that hip hop is only a subculture. And there may be issues to be addressed in hip hop, but how do we address them?

You can list all of the causes of hip hop's negatives and the results of its influence, but cannot list one viable solution?

How about, first of all, trying to get with the hip hop leaders and talking to them. I hear that Sean Combs and Russell Simmons is feeling out the political arena. What about something like that ?

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

First off, I respectfully disagree with your statement that hip hop is only a subculture. And there may be issues to be addressed in hip hop, but how do we address them?

You can list all of the causes of hip hop's negatives and the results of its influence, but cannot list one viable solution?

How about, first of all, trying to get with the hip hop leaders and talking to them. I hear that Sean Combs and Russell Simmons is feeling out the political arena. What about something like that ?

I'd have no problem at all with any individual trying their hand at politics regardless of their views. Everyone should have the chance to be heard. A good idea can come from everywhere. HOWEVER- I do not believe that an individual can make their fortune off of misfortune and still be a driving force for good. It just sends the wrong message. When I say makes a fortune off of misfortune I'm referring to glamorizing violence and cruelty to make a buck. Make no mistake, it is being glamorized.

As for a viable solution, if I had all the answers I'd be giving them to you. But I will say this. I think the answer involves a lot of education. I think it involves alot of individuals in these communities stepping up and saying that they will not accept a culture of violence for their children. I believe it takes consumers being responsible about where they put their money. Basically, it takes dedication to improvement.

Edit- I just read your latest post. IF violence is not a key element in hip hop, if it is only what the salesmen sell, then don't you think it is important that the positive forces in hip hop start getting the pub that all of the thugs are currently receiving? Personally, I am not a fan of rap music because of the message, not the delivery. I don't envy those in economically difficult situations, nor those in prison, nor those making money selling drugs. That may be only the vocal minority in the hip hop community espousing those views but as a very casual observer, that is what I am hearing.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

I'd have no problem at all with any individual trying their hand at politics regardless of their views. Everyone should have the chance to be heard. A good idea can come from everywhere. HOWEVER- I do not believe that an individual can make their fortune off of misfortune and still be a driving force for good. It just sends the wrong message. When I say makes a fortune off of misfortune I'm referring to glamorizing violence and cruelty to make a buck. Make no mistake, it is being glamorized.

As for a viable solution, if I had all the answers I'd be giving them to you. But I will say this. I think the answer involves a lot of education. I think it involves alot of individuals in these communities stepping up and saying that they will not accept a culture of violence for their children. I believe it takes consumers being responsible about where they put their money. Basically, it takes dedication to improvement.

I don't know if you were able to read my last couple of posts, but those would be my reply to this.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

I don't know if you were able to read my last couple of posts, but those would be my reply to this.

Yeah, I just edited my post to reply to that, we were playing the posting equivalent of phone tag.

Honestly, what you talk about hip hop representing is something I think anyone with a somewhat open mind can respect. I just think that all of those positive messages are hidden behind a layer of filth. And that's a shame.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Edit- I just read your latest post. IF violence is not a key element in hip hop, if it is only what the salesmen sell, then don't you think it is important that the positive forces in hip hop start getting the pub that all of the thugs are currently receiving? Personally, I am not a fan of rap music because of the message, not the delivery. I don't envy those in economically difficult situations, nor those in prison, nor those making money selling drugs. That may be only the vocal minority in the hip hop community espousing those views but as a very casual observer, that is what I am hearing.

Don't mistake the business of hip hop with the culture of hip hop. That's what I mean by salesmen. And that's the only message you're getting with hip hop through those salesmen.

If you really feel strongly about hip hop's influence then find some solutions. I'm not saying it's right, but there's no real organization because it is driven by the hip hop business industry. But make no mistake, hip hop is not going away anytime soon - it's actually getting stronger and gaining more influence.

One other thing, some of those answers that you have come up with are general solutions to any social issues - education, community help, leadership. I guess that's what's needed - but how do you do/initiate this?

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

If you really feel strongly about hip hop's influence then find some solutions. I'm not saying it's right, but there's no real organization because it is driven by the hip hop business industry. But make no mistake, hip hop is not going away anytime soon - it's actually getting stronger and gaining more influence.

One other thing, some of those answers that you have come up with are general solutions to any social issues - education, community help, leadership. I guess that's what's needed - but how do you do/initiate this?

They are general solutions, because it's a general problem. The only way to initiate it is to openly discuss it like we are right now. Without attacking race and other issues that truly are not the root of the problem. The only way to affect any real change in america is with money, let's be honest. If consumers started spending their money on hip hop artists with a positive message (Common is one of the few that i can think of...) then the industry will gradually change. It's going to take STRONG, credible community leaders though.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

They are general solutions, because it's a general problem. The only way to initiate it is to openly discuss it like we are right now. Without attacking race and other issues that truly are not the root of the problem. The only way to affect any real change in america is with money, let's be honest. If consumers started spending their money on hip hop artists with a positive message (Common is one of the few that i can think of...) then the industry will gradually change. It's going to take STRONG, credible community leaders though.

Selling positive messages does not work - it does not work in the TV, Film, Sports, and Internet media industries. How will it work for hip hop? And we cannot control hip hop artists or anyone else, only ourselves. We can have an influence, depending on relationships and our political and economic power, on someone else, but not we may not be able to convince them to do anything. Of course, everyone thinks about their own well-being first and then maybe social issues.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Selling positive messages does not work - it does not work in the TV, Film, Sports, and Internet media industries. How will it work for hip hop? And we cannot control hip hop artists or anyone else, only ourselves. We can have an influence, depending on relationships and our political and economic power, on someone else, but not we cannot control them.

Does not work? How so?

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Selling positive messages does not work - it does not work in the TV, Film, Sports, and Internet media industries. How will it work for hip hop? And we cannot control hip hop artists or anyone else, only ourselves. We can have an influence, depending on relationships and our political and economic power, on someone else, but not we cannot control them.

I'm going to draw a parallel that is more than a bit of a stretch. 30 years ago, everyone knew smoking was bad for you. But they didn't know how bad. Then when they learned how bad, they still didn't stop because they were addicted. It was a habit that was literally ingrained in our culture. Over the past decade or so the country has had the "right" choice literally forced on them. No smoking in bars, businesses or buses for that matter. People bitched and moaned (still are) every step of the way but in the end, we're all better for it. This is not all that different if you think about it. The problem is wide spread, the issue is intertwined with the culture and the end result is deadly. You know, in Germany, it is illegal to say anything positive about Nazism or Hitler. Why? Because the country wants to try to keep from going back to that dark place. They made the decision that for the good of all they would infringe on the free speech of a few. That can be a slippery slope but in some cases it is obviously necessary. I think we are approaching that point. Maybe in addition to community action, education and responsible consumerism, there needs to be legislation that makes it illegal to profit off of any kind of "hate." It would be a hugely controversial issue but eventually it MAY be the only way. I don't know.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Selling positive messages does not work - it does not work in the TV, Film, Sports, and Internet media industries. How will it work for hip hop? And we cannot control hip hop artists or anyone else, only ourselves. We can have an influence, depending on relationships and our political and economic power, on someone else, but not we may not be able to convince them to do anything. Of course, everyone thinks about their own well-being first and then maybe social issues.

I think you have hit on a major part of the solution. Grassroots involvement. Everyone needs to be involved in the lives of these teenagers / young men who are at risk. Volunteer at the local schools, talk to kids in your neighboorhood, be involved with extended family. Try to help single parents if they need it.

You are absolutely right, we will never change the rap/hip-hop lyrics or message beause there is too much money to be made by the "artists" (used losely) and because there is no such thing as a socially responsible corporation. Corporations by nature are concerned with only one thing, profits. The only time they make the appearance of being socially responsible is when it helps generate (or protect) profits.

We need to re-inforce to the young men in our country that the rappers, TV & movie personalities aren't "real". They are selling an image and writing lyrics that "gets them paid". They don't live in the projects or in low-income housing. They aren't on the corner "hustlin'". They may have at one point in their lives, but once they got a break and became successful, 98% of them get out of the "hood" as fast as they can.

We need to try to keep the energy these young men have focused in a positive way on sports & academics or whatever other positive activity can keep them interested. Most of all we can't ever give up on these young men or wait for someone else to come up with a solution (gov't, corporations, leaders).

I think about the kids I coach and am always concerned between the end of the season and pre-season workouts because I don't see them and can't give them some corny message or cliche about "doing their homework" or "staying out of trouble". I just pray that I don't get a phone call, letting me know we lost a young man to arrest or worse.

I know we won't be able to save every young man, but we will save some and that's why we need to keep re-inforcing the positive messages on a on-on-one level, get an education, learn to win/lose respectably, learn to work within a team and be good teammate, learn to be a leader. If we can connect one-on-one and stay involved in their lives and let them know we care, they will have something to live for other than "gettin' mine", their "cred", or being a "soulja". We just have to keep trying to show them the path Sean had already found with the birth of his daughter and hope they take it.