Who called the 2nd timeout?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by GMScud

This is where I think there's kind of mix of blame. Because of course the players are responsible for going out and executing the plays. And often times they struggle with fundamentals. And that's their fault. But Gibbs picks these players, and coaches them, and ultimately the buck stops with him. He even says so himself.

There have been plenty of games where if we don't drop the ball or fumble here, we don't settle for a field goal there, and hey, we would have won. But when the same mix of problems plague a team for nearly 4 full seasons, I think unfortunately we have to label it as a pattern. And the bottom line is Gibbs is the head guy both on the field and in the front office, regardless of whether or not he is completely to blame.

For as much as I hate to agree with those comments, I have no choice BUT to agree. I hate to admit it, but sometimes you have to.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by jsarno

For as much as I hate to agree with those comments, I have no choice BUT to agree. I hate to admit it, but sometimes you have to.

Yeah, trust me, it gives me so pleasure to make those comments. It just sucks. What a shitty week, what a shitty end to a shitty week. I can't believe we have to play again on Thursday. I feel so, so bad for our entire organization right now.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

If this was ANY other coach that did this, there wouldn't be a supporter on the board making excuses for him. Guys, this is the NFL. You are paid MILLIONS not to make mistakes like this.. (From J. La's blog) Publicly, his players said they were to blame for not making more plays; privately, many veterans fumed and looked at it as another egregious error by Gibbs in a season full of them.

"Come on man, this is the NFL," one veteran said. "What coach don't know the rules?"

When he's on the verge of losing the locker-room for his continued ineptitude don't be singing Gibbs 1.0 and 2005.. 2008 is around the corner, let's get real around here..

You are paid MILLIONS to win games you're supposed to win.. Losing 5 (5!!!!!!!!!!!!!) games with a 2nd half lead this season is completely inexcusable.. For all of the excuses people want to make about execution, the offense should have done this or that, the buck stops at the top!! 1-2 games getting away, it happens.. 3 games, bad luck.. 5 games and 15 in 4 years, inexcusable!!! Anyone who can't see that is either blind or consciously chooses not to see it..

Can you imagine Snyder being tolerant if it was Norv Turner botching timeouts and blowing leads? As Vince Lombardi famously said, "Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." This team has an amazing habit of losing that I don't know how they break. I'd like to see the team put together much stronger D and O lines as a start. Those were constants during Gibss's first tenure.

[Sammy Baugh Fan]

If Gibbs didn't know the rule...what aboy 60+ playeys, Coaches and staff?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Sammy Baugh Fan

If Gibbs didn't know the rule...what aboy 60+ playeys, Coaches and staff?

I think he just lost track of the fact that it's actually a penalty. That's only changed in the past couple of years. In the past, you were just told no you can't call timeout

[jsarno]

I gotta say, I was on the Gibbs to victory train, but he is really disappointing me, and that call was pissing me off. I'm not going to say it's common knowledge, but my wife called the penalty. I had a look of disbelief on my face (jaw open and everything) and she said, "wait, isn't that a 15 yard penalty", I quietly said yes. After the ref called it, I lost it, I yelled at the TV and yelled at Gibbs (like he heard me). I called him an overpaid piece of shit, and went on to say that a 2 year old knows not to call two time outs bac to back, but a 5 million dollar hall of fame coach doesn't? Granted I was being a little harsh, so maybe it's more like a 6 year old, but holy crap...I just can't get over that call and it reminds me of Chris Webber when he was at Michigan.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I gotta say, I was on the Gibbs to victory train, but he is really disappointing me, and that call was pissing me off. I'm not going to say it's common knowledge, but my wife called the penalty. I had a look of disbelief on my face (jaw open and everything) and she said, "wait, isn't that a 15 yard penalty", I quietly said yes. After the ref called it, I lost it, I yelled at the TV and yelled at Gibbs (like he heard me). I called him an overpaid piece of shit, and went on to say that a 2 year old knows not to call two time outs bac to back, but a 5 million dollar hall of fame coach doesn't? Granted I was being a little harsh, so maybe it's more like a 6 year old, but holy crap...I just can't get over that call and it reminds me of Chris Webber when he was at Michigan.

Michigan didn't pay Webber nearly as well as Gibbs, but I'm sure he didn't make out too badly either ;-)

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

Michigan didn't pay Webber nearly as well as Gibbs, but I'm sure he didn't make out too badly either ;-)

LOL. Yeah, very true.

[SmootSmack]

I can't imagine what Gibbs must be going through right now. He's asked to guide the team all week, an extraorindarily difficult day, and then it all slips away on a mental gaffe of Gibbs.

It's a real shame. I hope they can all bounce back next week. But Gibbs must know that he can't do anything good. He obviously can't go out and make a play on the field. If it's a great playcall, credit goes to Saunders. He himself is in an unwinnable situation. Has been since the day he walked back into Redskins Park in 2004.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I can't imagine what Gibbs must be going through right now. He's asked to guide the team all week, an extraorindarily difficult day, and then it all slips away on a mental gaffe of Gibbs.

It's a real shame. I hope they can all bounce back next week. But Gibbs must know that he can't do anything good. He obviously can't go out and make a play on the field. If it's a great playcall, credit goes to Saunders. He himself is in an unwinnable situation. Has been since the day he walked back into Redskins Park in 2004.

I completely disagree with this. When we were 2-0 everyone was talking about how Gibbs put the pieces together and we were headed in the right direction. When everyone was talking playoffs, they all said it was Gibbs doing. He got all the credit for wins, and more than enough credit for the losses.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I completely disagree with this. When we were 2-0 everyone was talking about how Gibbs put the pieces together and we were headed in the right direction. When everyone was talking playoffs, they all said it was Gibbs doing. He got all the credit for wins, and more than enough credit for the losses.

I would hope that he'd get credit for building the team for the long term. But I just think that way way way more often than not he only gets blame when it comes to coaching in the here and now.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I would hope that he'd get credit for building the team for the long term. But I just think that way way way more often than not he only gets blame when it comes to coaching in the here and now.

Well, that is true cause we're losing now. It's like any team that loses, who is the 1st scapegoat? It's always the head coach. Look at Cam Cameron in Miami, it's not really his fault he's winless, his team sucks. But he gets a lot of blame. If Gibbs wins 4 straight, it will all go away. People are just tired of losing, so Gibbs is the first to be put in front of the firing range. That's the way he wants it too.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Well, that is true cause we're losing now. It's like any team that loses, who is the 1st scapegoat? It's always the head coach. Look at Cam Cameron in Miami, it's not really his fault he's winless, his team sucks. But he gets a lot of blame. If Gibbs wins 4 straight, it will all go away. People are just tired of losing, so Gibbs is the first to be put in front of the firing range. That's the way he wants it too.

Let me ask you this though. Had he won the game do you think we'd be praising Gibbs for keeping the team together and leading us to victory? By and large I would say no. I would say even if it had come down to a final missed field goal, we would hear about how he nearly blew it.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I can't imagine what Gibbs must be going through right now. He's asked to guide the team all week, an extraorindarily difficult day, and then it all slips away on a mental gaffe of Gibbs.

It's a real shame. I hope they can all bounce back next week. But Gibbs must know that he can't do anything good. He obviously can't go out and make a play on the field. If it's a great playcall, credit goes to Saunders. He himself is in an unwinnable situation. Has been since the day he walked back into Redskins Park in 2004.

I disagree with you SS. While I think the national media can be dismissive, the DC media is incredibly sympathetic, as are the fans. The expectation when he walked through that door in 2004 was championship, nothing less. Gibbs knew that and welcomed that challenge. Unfair? Perhaps, but in the parity-driven NFL that's the expectation for all 32 teams and their head coaches - who are generally fired after year 3 if the team does not appear to be on at least a championship track. Well here we are year 4 and we're not, in my opinion, close to that standard. He's a good, solid, decent man, and some part of me hurts to see him attacked. But in the NFL that's what you risk when you wear the crown. For a shot at the sweetest glory you expose yourself to ridicule and worse if you fail.

And I'm sorry, he's failing.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

I disagree with you SS. While I think the national media can be dismissive, the DC media is incredibly sympathetic, as are the fans. The expectation when he walked through that door in 2004 was championship, nothing less. Gibbs knew that and welcomed that challenge. Unfair? Perhaps, but in the parity-driven NFL that's the expectation for all 32 teams and their head coaches - who are generally fired after year 3 if the team does not appear to be on at least a championship track. Well here we are year 4 and we're not, in my opinion, close to that standard. He's a good, solid, decent man, and some part of me hurts to see him attacked. But in the NFL that's what you risk when you wear the crown. For a shot at the sweetest glory you expose yourself to ridicule and worse if you fail.

And I'm sorry, he's failing.

We're going to have to agree to disagree, I guess. Maybe because I consider guys like Pollin, Czaban, Doc Walker local media even though they are national as well. And the fans? Hardly sympathetic.

I mean I keep hearing about how tough it's been all week for the players, for Williams. How they left it all on the field. But...well I've hardly heard anything about that for Gibbs, and I just don't believe for one minute anyone would have given him any credit for a win.

I agree that it was a boneheaded move on his part, but I hope that Redskins fans and the media aren't so narrow minded as to continue to blame everything single mistake on him. It may seem like I go overboard to defend Gibbs, but sometimes I have to just to balance out all the absolute hate there is towards him.

As a fan I want him back next year. But as a friend (of a friend of a friend of a friend, etc.) I think he deserves better than to be involved with this organization and its fans.