Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?

[celts32]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Celts, you never answered a question I had for you.

How do you measure the all-time great coaches?

I know your point is that you measure them by super bowl wins, and yes he does have 3 going on 4. However, I don't think it's fair to say that if he has 4 or 5 that makes him a better coach then another coach who only won 2 or 3 super bowls. What it comes down to is I personally choose to penalize him for his 6 years of pre-Brady failures more then most people will. It's just my opinion.

And for the record I am only 36 so I only know the Lombardi legend from NFL Fils and books having never lived through the era...IMO the best coaches ever in my life are Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs and Bill Parcels.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by celts32

I know your point is that you measure them by super bowl wins, and yes he does have 3 going on 4. However, I don't think it's fair to say that if he has 4 or 5 that makes him a better coach then another coach who only won 2 or 3 super bowls. What it comes down to is I personally choose to penalize him for his 6 years of pre-Brady failures more then most people will. It's just my opinion.

And for the record I am only 36 so I only know the Lombardi legend from NFL Fils and books having never lived through the era...IMO the best coaches ever in my life are Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs and Bill Parcels.

For the record, I'm thirty..well, we're about the same age Suffice it to say, I've never seen Lombardi either. But if Super Bowl victories aren't the measure of greatness, then what is? Yes, the ultimate measurement and benchmark for greatness, as far as coaches go, are Super Bowl victories. If not, then what separates Belichick from the Marty Shottenheimer's of the world? We don't mention the coaches who lost four Super Bowls for the Bills and Vikings respectively, but we can rattle off the people who have won a few.

And that's fine to penalize Belichick for his tenure with the Browns, he'll still be a first ballot hall of famer. Like it or not. And his name will be mentioned with Vince Lombardi, like it or not. In the end, no one will ever remember what Belichick did with Cleveland.

I'm willing to bet, the casual fan has no idea he even had a stint with Cleveland. Most think he and Brady dropped out of heaven about 30 seconds behind each other.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

For the record, I'm thirty..well, we're about the same age Suffice it to say, I've never seen Lombardi either. But if Super Bowl victories aren't the measure of greatness, then what is? Yes, the ultimate measurement and benchmark for greatness, as far as coaches go, are Super Bowl victories. If not, then what separates Belichick from the Marty Shottenheimer's of the world? We don't mention the coaches who lost four Super Bowls for the Bills and Vikings respectively, but we can rattle off the people who have won a few.

And that's fine to penalize Belichick for his tenure with the Browns, he'll still be a first ballot hall of famer. Like it or not. And his name will be mentioned with Vince Lombardi, like it or not. In the end, no one will ever remember what Belichick did with Cleveland.

I'm willing to bet, the casual fan has no idea he even had a stint with Cleveland. Most think he and Brady dropped out of heaven about 30 seconds behind each other.

I guess I am okay with him being mentioned with the best I just don't think he is the single best ever...and I hear some media people starting to make that leap. And your right no one seems to remember Cleveland...it's like he's been cleansed of it which i don't think is right.

My issue was never with him being a good coach...he obviously ranks above all coaches who never won a Super bowl...he's obviously a hall of famer...I just don't think he will ever rank above Walsh or Gibbs in my eyes no matter how many Super Bowls him and Brady manage to win.