Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"

[sancho2613]

Originally Posted by irish

That's right but that's what happens when you create a huge legacy. It creates huge expectations. Had he not had that great legacy of success he would not have been rehired.

It took u longer then i thought it would to come join ur buddy. ANYWAYS so ur a Redskins fan but yet ur backing up a guy who is saying negative things about ur hall of fame coach? i'm sorry i just can't believe after all that Gibbs has done for ur team u would be glad he's leaving and even worst agreeing with people who talk trash about him. I've been a Packers fan since i was a little kid and I would stand behind Brett Favre even if he was playing like crap and in his 60's because i aprreciate everything he's done for my team and to me he deserves the respect just like i think Gibbs deserves it after everything he's done. U should be happy there was someone there to hold ur team together this year after the Taylor tragedy and all he's done instead of coming on here talking bout u agree with some fat f#%k talking shit about him......

[SkinEmAll]

Originally Posted by sancho2613

It took u longer then i thought it would to come join ur buddy. ANYWAYS so ur a Redskins fan but yet ur backing up a guy who is saying negative things about ur hall of fame coach? i'm sorry i just can't believe after all that Gibbs has done for ur team u would be glad he's leaving and even worst agreeing with people who talk trash about him. I've been a Packers fan since i was a little kid and I would stand behind Brett Favre even if he was playing like crap and in his 60's because i aprreciate everything he's done for my team and to me he deserves the respect just like i think Gibbs deserves it after everything he's done. U should be happy there was someone there to hold ur team together this year after the Taylor tragedy and all he's done instead of coming on here talking bout u agree with some fat f#%k talking shit about him......

Hey Im rooting for you guys and for Farve to go all the way. And yeah isnt it kinda odd the way these guys see the whole Gibbs situation. You know its pretty sad when someone whos been on this board for awhile, ask the other members to explain line by line why fat lennys article is disrespectful and incorrect and why we think Gibbs is such a great leader and coach. I feel like if someone cant see for themselves, well then I dont know what me or anyone else here can do.
So anyway good luck this weekend, i hope they kill the seahawgs!!

[irish]

Originally Posted by sancho2613

It took u longer then i thought it would to come join ur buddy. ANYWAYS so ur a Redskins fan but yet ur backing up a guy who is saying negative things about ur hall of fame coach? i'm sorry i just can't believe after all that Gibbs has done for ur team u would be glad he's leaving and even worst agreeing with people who talk trash about him. I've been a Packers fan since i was a little kid and I would stand behind Brett Favre even if he was playing like crap and in his 60's because i aprreciate everything he's done for my team and to me he deserves the respect just like i think Gibbs deserves it after everything he's done. U should be happy there was someone there to hold ur team together this year after the Taylor tragedy and all he's done instead of coming on here talking bout u agree with some fat f#%k talking shit about him......

I dont recall saying I was glad to see him go in this thread. I said over his entire career he was a great coach but Gibbs 2.0 was a disappointment. There is no way anyone on this board would have thought that after 4 years Gibbs 2.0 would leave with a losing record. Its disappointing.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by irish

I dont recall saying I was glad to see him go in this thread. I said over his entire career he was a great coach but Gibbs 2.0 was a disappointment. There is no way anyone on this board would have thought that after 4 years Gibbs 2.0 would leave with a losing record. Its disappointing.

Looking at the onfield performance, I can't disagree with that. Getting to the playoffs is fun, but let's be honest, four years ago we had visions of Super Bowls, and the Skins haven't been close to that level.

Looking at the bigger picture, Gibbs solidified the QB position for the next 8-10 years if Campbell's progression continues. Improve play on both lines and I see the Skins taking that next step.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

Looking at the onfield performance, I can't disagree with that. Getting to the playoffs is fun, but let's be honest, four years ago we had visions of Super Bowls, and the Skins haven't been close to that level.

Looking at the bigger picture, Gibbs solidified the QB position for the next 8-10 years if Campbell's progression continues. Improve play on both lines and I see the Skins taking that next step.

Well as to date JC has not shown me enough to say he has solidified the QB position. In fact his progression was going the other way with some of the way we lost ball games. I have not thrown the towel in on JC but he had not shown me enough to say he is our answer at QB for another 8 to 10 years. If he has shown you enough to say that your standards for QB's may be a bit low.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Well as to date JC has not shown me enough to say he has solidified the QB position. In fact his progression was going the other way with some of the way we lost ball games. I have not thrown the towel in on JC but he had not shown me enough to say he is our answer at QB for another 8 to 10 years. If he has shown you enough to say that your standards for QB's may be a bit low.

No, he hasn't yet solidified his position. However, he has shown more promise in his 20 starts (which amounts to just 1.25 seasons) than any QB in the Snyder era has shown. There's certainly cause to be optimistic.

[sancho2613]

Originally Posted by irish

I dont recall saying I was glad to see him go in this thread. I said over his entire career he was a great coach but Gibbs 2.0 was a disappointment. There is no way anyone on this board would have thought that after 4 years Gibbs 2.0 would leave with a losing record. Its disappointing.

you didn't say it in this one but you did say it in a different thread but that's another story.... I just can't understand why anyone would think it's a disapointment? You make it seem like the Skins had winning records the few years before he came back and then he got here and ruined it. You have seen the skins records on the few years before he came back right? They had only one winning record in the previous 7 years before he came back. He had his team playing hard for him and if you would of had your wish i believe you would of had a lot worst of a season. I just can't understand why you would want another coach knowing that the team would play harder and have a lot more respect for the hall of fame coach you already had. It almost seems like wishing you had a crappier team by having a coach that wouldn't of been able to pull through the hard times that Gibbs had to go through. Sorry just can't understand.... 1 playoff berth in 12 years when he's gone or 2 in 4 years? I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to figure out if you were better off with him or with out him....

[saden1]

Originally Posted by sancho2613

you didn't say it in this one but you did say it in a different thread but that's another story.... I just can't understand why anyone would think it's a disapointment? You make it seem like the Skins had winning records the few years before he came back and then he got here and ruined it. You have seen the skins records on the few years before he came back right? They had only one winning record in the previous 7 years before he came back. He had his team playing hard for him and if you would of had your wish i believe you would of had a lot worst of a season. I just can't understand why you would want another coach knowing that the team would play harder and have a lot more respect for the hall of fame coach you already had. It almost seems like wishing you had a crappier team by having a coach that wouldn't of been able to pull through the hard times that Gibbs had to go through. Sorry just can't understand.... 1 playoff berth in 12 years when he's gone or 2 in 4 years? I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to figure out if you were better off with him or with out him....

Give yourself a pat on the back and a cold pint

Hope the Packers beat the Seahawks.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by irish

I dont recall saying I was glad to see him go in this thread. I said over his entire career he was a great coach but Gibbs 2.0 was a disappointment. There is no way anyone on this board would have thought that after 4 years Gibbs 2.0 would leave with a losing record. Its disappointing.

Disappointment is a personal emotion and is completely dependent on the circumstances and your expectations.

Looking back, I am not the least bit disappointed in Gibbs 2.0. Could it have been better? Sure. Like someone else said though, we have improved substantially.

[irish]

Originally Posted by mheisig

Disappointment is a personal emotion and is completely dependent on the circumstances and your expectations.

Looking back, I am not the least bit disappointed in Gibbs 2.0. Could it have been better? Sure. Like someone else said though, we have improved substantially.

You are not the least bit disappointed in a losing record overall and 1 playoff win? I find that really hard to believe.

How have we improved substantially? Do the skins have good players? Yes but they have had good players in the past also. The NFL is such a fluid environment that its hard to say that what is here now will be here in the future or be successful.

This team had a losing record prior to Gibbs 2.0 and it had a losing record when he left. The only improvement I saw was barely making the playoffs twice. I guess thats better than nothing.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by irish

You are not the least bit disappointed in a losing record overall and 1 playoff win? I find that really hard to believe.

How have we improved substantially? Do the skins have good players? Yes but they have had good players in the past also. The NFL is such a fluid environment that its hard to say that what is here now will be here in the future or be successful.

This team had a losing record prior to Gibbs 2.0 and it had a losing record when he left. The only improvement I saw was barely making the playoffs twice. I guess thats better than nothing.

Yes, actually its twice as much as we'd been since Gibbs left in 93. Everything is relative, and to not evaluate someone w/respect to the circumstances is almost arbitrary. Gibbs came into a situation that even the Danny conceded yesterday was "unstable." He got us to the playoffs twice & brought in talent to build on, particularly JC. Even if you're not convinced he's the guy, at least Gibbs made the move to get him, which was not that costly either. Gibbs knew that it was in the best interest of the team & that in all likelihood JC's best years would be after Gibbs retires.

If I'm correct, Pastabelly also said similar things about Parcells' tenure w/Dallas, pointing out his avg. record. yet Parcells got that team back in the playoffs & built the roster that is now #1 in the nfc.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by irish

How have we improved substantially? Do the skins have good players? Yes but they have had good players in the past also.

I posted this in another thread, but I thought people might want to compare our starters, pre and post Gibbs.

OFFENSE

LT = unchanged
LG = Dockery to Kendall
C = Moore to Rabach
RG = unchanged
RT = unchanged
TE = Zeron Flemister to Chris Cooley
WR#1 = Coles to Moss
WR #2 = Gardner to ARE
RB = Trung Canidate to Clinton Portis
FB = Bryan Johnson to Mike Sellers

DEFENSE

LE = Wynn to Daniels
DT = Noble to Montgomery
DT = Dalton to Griffin
RE = Upshaw to Carter
OLB = Arrington to McIntosh
MLB = Trotter to Fletcher
OLB = Armstead to Washington
CB#1 = Bailey to Springs
CB #2 = Smoot to Smoot/Rogers
FS = Ohalete to Taylor*
SS = Bowen to Landry

Aside from the Bailey/Springs and Dockery/Kendall swaps, we are in much better position today than we were 4 years ago. Of the 22 starters Spurrier left Gibbs with, 11 are not even playing in the NFL (Ohalete, Bowen, Armstead, Arrington, Noble, Dalton, Upshaw, Moore, Flemister, Johnson, and Canidate). That's 50% of the team. Moreover, most of those guys are out of work due to poor play, not age or injury.

In short, we did NOT have a good roster in 2003. We appear to have a nice one in 2007.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I posted this in another thread, but I thought people might want to compare our starters, pre and post Gibbs.

OFFENSE

LT = unchanged
LG = Dockery to Kendall
C = Moore to Rabach
RG = unchanged
RT = unchanged
TE = Zeron Flemister to Chris Cooley
WR#1 = Coles to Moss
WR #2 = Gardner to ARE
RB = Trung Canidate to Clinton Portis
FB = Bryan Johnson to Mike Sellers

DEFENSE

LE = Wynn to Daniels
DT = Noble to Montgomery
DT = Dalton to Griffin
RE = Upshaw to Carter
OLB = Arrington to McIntosh
MLB = Trotter to Fletcher
OLB = Armstead to Washington
CB#1 = Bailey to Springs
CB #2 = Smoot to Smoot/Rogers
FS = Ohalete to Taylor*
SS = Bowen to Landry

Aside from the Bailey/Springs and Dockery/Kendall swaps, we are in much better position today than we were 4 years ago. Of the 22 starters Spurrier left Gibbs with, 11 are not even playing in the NFL (Ohalete, Bowen, Armstead, Arrington, Noble, Dalton, Upshaw, Moore, Flemister, Johnson, and Canidate). That's 50% of the team. Moreover, most of those guys are out of work due to poor play, not age or injury.

In short, we did NOT have a good roster in 2003. We appear to have a nice one in 2007.

Good comparison, Thanks. The flaw in all this better off talk is that it assumes the team has been "fixed". Unfortunately an NFL team is not like a broken car, a NFL team is never fixed. Players & coaches come & go. Injury happen. The team is always being tweaked, patched, etc. Its an ongoing process that is never done. Gibbs did some good things while he was here but he's gone now and his "fixes" will only last until the next tweak.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by irish

Good comparison, Thanks. The flaw in all this better off talk is that it assumes the team has been "fixed". Unfortunately an NFL team is not like a broken car, a NFL team is never fixed. Players & coaches come & go. Injury happen. The team is always being tweaked, patched, etc. Its an ongoing process that is never done. Gibbs did some good things while he was here but he's gone now and his "fixes" will only last until the next tweak.

Huh? Did Gibbs' "teak[s], patch[es], etc." improve the team? From a personnel point of view, and based on SGG comparison, I would say most definitely. Further, it appears you are conceding (which Lenny P does not) that Gibbs has improved the team.

The statement I bolded seems to assert that the moment anyone "teak[s], patch[es], etc." the Redskins then all of the work done by Gibbs will be wiped out. That simply if far to broad a statement to be given credibility.

On the other hand, if you are merely asserting that it is possible that the next coach will completely unravel Gibbs good work b/c Snyder will simply go back to his old ways, fair enough. That could happen. But that scenario is more than a mere tweak or patch.

Preliminarily, by making the bolded assertion you inherently concede that Gibbs HAS improved the team. The only question is whether or not the improvements he made will survive without him being present.

Essentially, it devolves back to the question that we all have and that only time will answer: Did Gibbs teach Snyder patience and will Snyder be able to be patient without Gibbs presence. IF SO then, I believe, we will be fine. If not, then God help all 'Skins fans.

[SkinsFanSince91]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I posted this in another thread, but I thought people might want to compare our starters, pre and post Gibbs.

OFFENSE

LT = unchanged
LG = Dockery to Kendall
C = Moore to Rabach
RG = unchanged
RT = unchanged
TE = Zeron Flemister to Chris Cooley
WR#1 = Coles to Moss
WR #2 = Gardner to ARE
RB = Trung Canidate to Clinton Portis
FB = Bryan Johnson to Mike Sellers

DEFENSE

LE = Wynn to Daniels
DT = Noble to Montgomery
DT = Dalton to Griffin
RE = Upshaw to Carter
OLB = Arrington to McIntosh
MLB = Trotter to Fletcher
OLB = Armstead to Washington
CB#1 = Bailey to Springs
CB #2 = Smoot to Smoot/Rogers
FS = Ohalete to Taylor*
SS = Bowen to Landry

Aside from the Bailey/Springs and Dockery/Kendall swaps, we are in much better position today than we were 4 years ago. Of the 22 starters Spurrier left Gibbs with, 11 are not even playing in the NFL (Ohalete, Bowen, Armstead, Arrington, Noble, Dalton, Upshaw, Moore, Flemister, Johnson, and Canidate). That's 50% of the team. Moreover, most of those guys are out of work due to poor play, not age or injury.

In short, we did NOT have a good roster in 2003. We appear to have a nice one in 2007.

Sheriff, you should send this to Lenny "fats" and see what he has to see after this obvious upgrade, 2 playoff appearances, one playoff win, and a galvanizing of a distraught team after the death of Sean Taylor are not feats made by anyone who is average.