Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"

[irish]

Originally Posted by mheisig

Disappointment is a personal emotion and is completely dependent on the circumstances and your expectations.

Looking back, I am not the least bit disappointed in Gibbs 2.0. Could it have been better? Sure. Like someone else said though, we have improved substantially.

You are not the least bit disappointed in a losing record overall and 1 playoff win? I find that really hard to believe.

How have we improved substantially? Do the skins have good players? Yes but they have had good players in the past also. The NFL is such a fluid environment that its hard to say that what is here now will be here in the future or be successful.

This team had a losing record prior to Gibbs 2.0 and it had a losing record when he left. The only improvement I saw was barely making the playoffs twice. I guess thats better than nothing.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by irish

You are not the least bit disappointed in a losing record overall and 1 playoff win? I find that really hard to believe.

How have we improved substantially? Do the skins have good players? Yes but they have had good players in the past also. The NFL is such a fluid environment that its hard to say that what is here now will be here in the future or be successful.

This team had a losing record prior to Gibbs 2.0 and it had a losing record when he left. The only improvement I saw was barely making the playoffs twice. I guess thats better than nothing.

Yes, actually its twice as much as we'd been since Gibbs left in 93. Everything is relative, and to not evaluate someone w/respect to the circumstances is almost arbitrary. Gibbs came into a situation that even the Danny conceded yesterday was "unstable." He got us to the playoffs twice & brought in talent to build on, particularly JC. Even if you're not convinced he's the guy, at least Gibbs made the move to get him, which was not that costly either. Gibbs knew that it was in the best interest of the team & that in all likelihood JC's best years would be after Gibbs retires.

If I'm correct, Pastabelly also said similar things about Parcells' tenure w/Dallas, pointing out his avg. record. yet Parcells got that team back in the playoffs & built the roster that is now #1 in the nfc.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by irish

How have we improved substantially? Do the skins have good players? Yes but they have had good players in the past also.

I posted this in another thread, but I thought people might want to compare our starters, pre and post Gibbs.

OFFENSE

LT = unchanged
LG = Dockery to Kendall
C = Moore to Rabach
RG = unchanged
RT = unchanged
TE = Zeron Flemister to Chris Cooley
WR#1 = Coles to Moss
WR #2 = Gardner to ARE
RB = Trung Canidate to Clinton Portis
FB = Bryan Johnson to Mike Sellers

DEFENSE

LE = Wynn to Daniels
DT = Noble to Montgomery
DT = Dalton to Griffin
RE = Upshaw to Carter
OLB = Arrington to McIntosh
MLB = Trotter to Fletcher
OLB = Armstead to Washington
CB#1 = Bailey to Springs
CB #2 = Smoot to Smoot/Rogers
FS = Ohalete to Taylor*
SS = Bowen to Landry

Aside from the Bailey/Springs and Dockery/Kendall swaps, we are in much better position today than we were 4 years ago. Of the 22 starters Spurrier left Gibbs with, 11 are not even playing in the NFL (Ohalete, Bowen, Armstead, Arrington, Noble, Dalton, Upshaw, Moore, Flemister, Johnson, and Canidate). That's 50% of the team. Moreover, most of those guys are out of work due to poor play, not age or injury.

In short, we did NOT have a good roster in 2003. We appear to have a nice one in 2007.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I posted this in another thread, but I thought people might want to compare our starters, pre and post Gibbs.

OFFENSE

LT = unchanged
LG = Dockery to Kendall
C = Moore to Rabach
RG = unchanged
RT = unchanged
TE = Zeron Flemister to Chris Cooley
WR#1 = Coles to Moss
WR #2 = Gardner to ARE
RB = Trung Canidate to Clinton Portis
FB = Bryan Johnson to Mike Sellers

DEFENSE

LE = Wynn to Daniels
DT = Noble to Montgomery
DT = Dalton to Griffin
RE = Upshaw to Carter
OLB = Arrington to McIntosh
MLB = Trotter to Fletcher
OLB = Armstead to Washington
CB#1 = Bailey to Springs
CB #2 = Smoot to Smoot/Rogers
FS = Ohalete to Taylor*
SS = Bowen to Landry

Aside from the Bailey/Springs and Dockery/Kendall swaps, we are in much better position today than we were 4 years ago. Of the 22 starters Spurrier left Gibbs with, 11 are not even playing in the NFL (Ohalete, Bowen, Armstead, Arrington, Noble, Dalton, Upshaw, Moore, Flemister, Johnson, and Canidate). That's 50% of the team. Moreover, most of those guys are out of work due to poor play, not age or injury.

In short, we did NOT have a good roster in 2003. We appear to have a nice one in 2007.

Good comparison, Thanks. The flaw in all this better off talk is that it assumes the team has been "fixed". Unfortunately an NFL team is not like a broken car, a NFL team is never fixed. Players & coaches come & go. Injury happen. The team is always being tweaked, patched, etc. Its an ongoing process that is never done. Gibbs did some good things while he was here but he's gone now and his "fixes" will only last until the next tweak.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by irish

Good comparison, Thanks. The flaw in all this better off talk is that it assumes the team has been "fixed". Unfortunately an NFL team is not like a broken car, a NFL team is never fixed. Players & coaches come & go. Injury happen. The team is always being tweaked, patched, etc. Its an ongoing process that is never done. Gibbs did some good things while he was here but he's gone now and his "fixes" will only last until the next tweak.

Huh? Did Gibbs' "teak[s], patch[es], etc." improve the team? From a personnel point of view, and based on SGG comparison, I would say most definitely. Further, it appears you are conceding (which Lenny P does not) that Gibbs has improved the team.

The statement I bolded seems to assert that the moment anyone "teak[s], patch[es], etc." the Redskins then all of the work done by Gibbs will be wiped out. That simply if far to broad a statement to be given credibility.

On the other hand, if you are merely asserting that it is possible that the next coach will completely unravel Gibbs good work b/c Snyder will simply go back to his old ways, fair enough. That could happen. But that scenario is more than a mere tweak or patch.

Preliminarily, by making the bolded assertion you inherently concede that Gibbs HAS improved the team. The only question is whether or not the improvements he made will survive without him being present.

Essentially, it devolves back to the question that we all have and that only time will answer: Did Gibbs teach Snyder patience and will Snyder be able to be patient without Gibbs presence. IF SO then, I believe, we will be fine. If not, then God help all 'Skins fans.

[irish]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Huh? Did Gibbs' "teak[s], patch[es], etc." improve the team? From a personnel point of view, and based on SGG comparison, I would say most definitely. Further, it appears you are conceding (which Lenny P does not) that Gibbs has improved the team.

The statement I bolded seems to assert that the moment anyone "teak[s], patch[es], etc." the Redskins then all of the work done by Gibbs will be wiped out. That simply if far to broad a statement to be given credibility.

On the other hand, if you are merely asserting that it is possible that the next coach will completely unravel Gibbs good work b/c Snyder will simply go back to his old ways, fair enough. That could happen. But that scenario is more than a mere tweak or patch.

Preliminarily, by making the bolded assertion you inherently concede that Gibbs HAS improved the team. The only question is whether or not the improvements he made will survive without him being present.

Essentially, it devolves back to the question that we all have and that only time will answer: Did Gibbs teach Snyder patience and will Snyder be able to be patient without Gibbs presence. IF SO then, I believe, we will be fine. If not, then God help all 'Skins fans.

What I am saying is that a lot of folks on this board make it sound like Gibbs fixed a broken team and now all it need is to be left alone so it can win. What I am saying is while Gibbs was here he did his best to make changes that in some cases helped and in some cases didnt. When the new guy gets here some of the changes will stay, some wont. An NFL team is a constantly changing thing.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by irish

I think his fantasy football ways will be worse because he thinks that he has been "taught" by Gibbs.

I dont want him to cede control of his enterprise, I want him to listen to people who know football and football talent.

He may well have learned from Gibbs. Perhaps, one of the things he learned was to listen to the right people concerning talent. Unlike like you, I do not think this is an impossibility.

That, I think is the crux of our disagreement - You have no hope that the post-Gibbs Snyder will be better than the pre-Gibbs Snyder. I have hope that he will.

Originally Posted by irish

What I am saying is that a lot of folks on this board make it sound like Gibbs fixed a broken team and now all it need is to be left alone so it can win. What I am saying is while Gibbs was here he did his best to make changes that in some cases helped and in some cases didnt. When the new guy gets here some of the changes will stay, some wont. An NFL team is a constantly changing thing.

I don't think anyone is asserting that "all [the team] need[s] is to be left alone so it can win". Rather, we are asserting [hoping] that Gibbs fundamentally changed Snyder's fascination with aquiring bright, shiny new toys (re: players) and trying the quick fix, and, instead, taught Snyder that continuity, commitment and high quality team players are the ways to build a championship.

If Danny has truly learned that lesson, then a new guy is not going change it and Gibbs positive influence will be felt lonnnngggg after Gibbs' departure.

[irish]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

He may well have learned from Gibbs. Perhaps, one of the things he learned was to listen to the right people concerning talent. Unlike like you, I do not think this is an impossibility.

That, I think is the crux of our disagreement - You have no hope that the post-Gibbs Snyder will be better than the pre-Gibbs Snyder. I have hope that he will.



I don't think anyone is asserting that "all [the team] need[s] is to be left alone so it can win". Rather, we are asserting [hoping] that Gibbs fundamentally changed Snyder's fascination with aquiring bright, shiny new toys (re: players) and trying the quick fix, and, instead, taught Snyder that continuity, commitment and high quality team players are the ways to build a championship.

If Danny has truly learned that lesson, then a new guy is not going change it and Gibbs positive influence will be felt lonnnngggg after Gibbs' departure.

Nothing is impossible but I wouldnt bet my house on it.

[SkinsFanSince91]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I posted this in another thread, but I thought people might want to compare our starters, pre and post Gibbs.

OFFENSE

LT = unchanged
LG = Dockery to Kendall
C = Moore to Rabach
RG = unchanged
RT = unchanged
TE = Zeron Flemister to Chris Cooley
WR#1 = Coles to Moss
WR #2 = Gardner to ARE
RB = Trung Canidate to Clinton Portis
FB = Bryan Johnson to Mike Sellers

DEFENSE

LE = Wynn to Daniels
DT = Noble to Montgomery
DT = Dalton to Griffin
RE = Upshaw to Carter
OLB = Arrington to McIntosh
MLB = Trotter to Fletcher
OLB = Armstead to Washington
CB#1 = Bailey to Springs
CB #2 = Smoot to Smoot/Rogers
FS = Ohalete to Taylor*
SS = Bowen to Landry

Aside from the Bailey/Springs and Dockery/Kendall swaps, we are in much better position today than we were 4 years ago. Of the 22 starters Spurrier left Gibbs with, 11 are not even playing in the NFL (Ohalete, Bowen, Armstead, Arrington, Noble, Dalton, Upshaw, Moore, Flemister, Johnson, and Canidate). That's 50% of the team. Moreover, most of those guys are out of work due to poor play, not age or injury.

In short, we did NOT have a good roster in 2003. We appear to have a nice one in 2007.

Sheriff, you should send this to Lenny "fats" and see what he has to see after this obvious upgrade, 2 playoff appearances, one playoff win, and a galvanizing of a distraught team after the death of Sean Taylor are not feats made by anyone who is average.