Do you trust Snyder?

[lowblowlandry]

Wow Defensewins, the NFL game and high school/college (especially when Jerry Jones played college) are soo different. Having played football as a youth gives Jones no advantage over Snyder as a "football man" other than being a more athletic youngster. Is that really an advantage for an owner or General Manager?

I think people who already have their negative opinions of Snyder set in stone are trying to rationalize to themselves why the Redskins can't be successful with him.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by lowblowlandry

Wow Defensewins, the NFL game and high school/college (especially when Jerry Jones played college) are soo different. Having played football as a youth gives Jones no advantage over Snyder as a "football man" other than being a more athletic youngster. Is that really an advantage for an owner or General Manager?

I think people who already have their negative opinions of Snyder set in stone are trying to rationalize to themselves why the Redskins can't be successful with him.

Thank you. Congratulations on being my first signature sponsor of 2008

[sportscurmudgeon]

SmootSmack:

Of course JKC had an ego. And it got in HIS way too. The short version of why he couldn't manage to leave his team to his son is that he had it figured out how he could evade loads of estate taxes with his monumentally complicated estate plan and it all came crashing down like a house of cards because of two factors. One was that the actual value of the Chrysler Bldg in NYC - which he owned - wasn't worth nearly what he thought it was. Two was that he drained off too high a fraction of his liquid assets in building Jack Kent Cooke Stadium in RalJon Maryland to create a monument to himself. Check the name of the "town" he fictionalized as the home of his stadium to realize how much of a monument to himself all of that was.

JKC was not a meddling owner in the way Danny Boy was/is. So the only things he did that might annoy fans was when he took to the microphone once or twice a year and droned on and on and on in his sing-song voice. Danny Boy keeps a much higher profile than that.

Just one example: Danny Boy scouts college talent and convinces the "football people" to draft that strong armed QB he found named Patrick Ramsey. Danny Boy wants people to think he is part of making the Redskins a winner because he knows about football. JKC didn't do that kind of thing. All JKC did was to spend his money lavishly on the team. To be fair, JKC didn't have to worry about salary caps for most of his tenure as owner and Danny Boy does.

JKC maintained an image of an eccentric old coot whose marriages were sure to provide grist for gossip columns and humor writers. Danny Boy seems to have generated an image of an arrogant young know-it-all who has yet to show that he even knows more than a little bit about putting together a winning football team.

FWIW...

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

SmootSmack:

Of course JKC had an ego. And it got in HIS way too. The short version of why he couldn't manage to leave his team to his son is that he had it figured out how he could evade loads of estate taxes with his monumentally complicated estate plan and it all came crashing down like a house of cards because of two factors. One was that the actual value of the Chrysler Bldg in NYC - which he owned - wasn't worth nearly what he thought it was. Two was that he drained off too high a fraction of his liquid assets in building Jack Kent Cooke Stadium in RalJon Maryland to create a monument to himself. Check the name of the "town" he fictionalized as the home of his stadium to realize how much of a monument to himself all of that was.

JKC was not a meddling owner in the way Danny Boy was/is. So the only things he did that might annoy fans was when he took to the microphone once or twice a year and droned on and on and on in his sing-song voice. Danny Boy keeps a much higher profile than that.

Just one example: Danny Boy scouts college talent and convinces the "football people" to draft that strong armed QB he found named Patrick Ramsey. Danny Boy wants people to think he is part of making the Redskins a winner because he knows about football. JKC didn't do that kind of thing. All JKC did was to spend his money lavishly on the team. To be fair, JKC didn't have to worry about salary caps for most of his tenure as owner and Danny Boy does.

JKC maintained an image of an eccentric old coot whose marriages were sure to provide grist for gossip columns and humor writers. Danny Boy seems to have generated an image of an arrogant young know-it-all who has yet to show that he even knows more than a little bit about putting together a winning football team.

FWIW...

Well your disdain of Snyder is well documented both here, and on your own site. Quite honestly, it's hard to expect much of a reasoned argument from you on this when you keep referring to him as Danny Boy. Already you're being dismissive in simply referring to him that way. So I defer to the opinions of others on this topic.

Further, yes Ramsey was a bad move on his part. And he's also suggested, key word: suggested, other players which the Redskins ultimately chose not to draft. Also, he did recommend Rock Cartwright and he hasn't been too bad for a 7th rounder.

Defensewins, my apologies to you. I didn't read what you wrote clearly enough. I always get baffled/annoyed though when people-as they often do, but not in your case her-assume JKC was some sort of humble pious man who never got involved in any of the decision making of the team. All he did was write checks. All that is untrue. Plus, as everyone knows, the salary cap era has radically changed how you can build a roster. To compare the two eras is not fair.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well your disdain of Snyder is well documented both here, and on your own site. Quite honestly, it's hard to expect much of a reasoned argument from you on this when you keep referring to him as Danny Boy. Already you're being dismissive in simply referring to him that way. So I defer to the opinions of others on this topic.

Further, yes Ramsey was a bad move on his part. And he's also suggested, key word: suggested, other players which the Redskins ultimately chose not to draft. Also, he did recommend Rock Cartwright and he hasn't been too bad for a 7th rounder.

Defensewins, my apologies to you. I didn't read what you wrote clearly enough. I always get baffled/annoyed though when people-as they often do, but not in your case her-assume JKC was some sort of humble pious man who never got involved in any of the decision making of the team. All he did was write checks. All that is untrue. Plus, as everyone knows, the salary cap era has radically changed how you can build a roster. To compare the two eras is not fair.

And just to add, he really wanted to draft Santana Moss over Rod Gardner, but he ultimately left the decision up to Marty.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Defensewins, my apologies to you. I didn't read what you wrote clearly enough. I always get baffled/annoyed though when people-as they often do, but not in your case her-assume JKC was some sort of humble pious man who never got involved in any of the decision making of the team. All he did was write checks. All that is untrue. Plus, as everyone knows, the salary cap era has radically changed how you can build a roster. To compare the two eras is not fair.

I appreciate your post. Yeah I am old enough to remember JKC and he was not humble or quiet in any way.
It is rumored that the salary cap was originally created by the other owners because of JKC and the fear of his money. The 1992 Sb team had over $100M in total salary. In 1993 when the salary cap was installed it lead to the Redskins quick downfall in talent and depth.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I appreciate your post. Yeah I am old enough to remember JKC and he was not humble or quiet in any way.
It is rumored that the salary cap was originally created by the other owners because of JKC and the fear of his money. The 1992 Sb team had over $100M in total salary. In 1993 when the salary cap was installed it lead to the Redskins quick downfall in talent and depth.

I've heard the same, and quite honestly I think one reason Gibbs came back is that he sort of felt he jumped ship (which I suppose you could argue he did) just as the Redskins were about to hit hard by age and the salary cap and wanted to come back to correct that and leave, as best as he could, a legacy beyond him. (I love run-on sentences!).

He certainly left the team in better shape than when he left the team in 1993.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I appreciate your post. Yeah I am old enough to remember JKC and he was not humble or quiet in any way.
It is rumored that the salary cap was originally created by the other owners because of JKC and the fear of his money. The 1992 Sb team had over $100M in total salary. In 1993 when the salary cap was installed it lead to the Redskins quick downfall in talent and depth.

I think the $100 million figure is a bit high. Maybe like $45 million is closer. And the 49ers were always in the same range in those days, so it wasn't only Cooke they feared.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by lowblowlandry

Wow Defensewins, the NFL game and high school/college (especially when Jerry Jones played college) are soo different. Having played football as a youth gives Jones no advantage over Snyder as a "football man" other than being a more athletic youngster. Is that really an advantage for an owner or General Manager?

I think people who already have their negative opinions of Snyder set in stone are trying to rationalize to themselves why the Redskins can't be successful with him.

It is called experience. You are going to say a guy that played in and was part of a major college program has NO advantage over a guy that never was around any organized football team? Jones saw first hand how a successful major college program is run. He saw this from the inside. You are saying he did not learn anything from this experience?
I have no set in stone opinions of Snyder other than the track record Snyder has created for himself. Before Gibbs arrived Snyder did not do a good job of running the Redskins. Hey if Snyder begins to do a better job of being co-GM with Cerratto, I will be the first person to praise them and wish many more years of continuing success. Until then, all I have to go on is their history.