Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by dgack

Are there counterexamples of great QB's who have flourished with a number of different offensive coordinators? Say, from attrition due to promotion?

I can't think of one who had a bunch of different coordinators, but I can give a few examples of QBs who stayed right on their development path despite upheaval in the coaching staff:

Ben Roethlisberger (2007) Cowher/Whisenhunt-->Arians/Tomlin
Marc Bulger (2006) Martz-->Linehan
Tom Brady (2005) Weis-->McDainels
Rich Gannon (2002) Gruden-->Trestman/Callahan

Obviously, the volume of coaches getting promoted/retiring duing a period of prolonged success are slim, but it seems like talented QBs will always overcome.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think you are looking at that backwards. The reason all those coaches held job/got promoted is because (and Reid is the exception to this rule) they were coaching all-time great quarterbacks. The results were excellent (because of the Quarterback), so the need for coaching upheaval was subdued.

GTripp, I'm often on the same page with you, but I respectfully disagree with your opinion on this. You can perhaps say that McNabb and Manning were destined for greatness as a #2 and a #1 overall draft choice, but it certainly didn't hurt their progression being in the same system with the same offensive coach, from Day One. Indy DID fire Jim Mora, but did the smart thing by retaining Tom Moore as OC to continue Manning's development. And BTW, NOBODY saw or predicted all-time greatness for Favre or Brady when they first came into the league - they were afterthoughts. Favre was the #3 QB in Atlanta, and wasn't even the starter in GB when Holmgren traded for him. Brady was a so-so QB in college picked late in the draft. I would argue that their professional growth was accelerated by staying in one system under one offensive coach during their early development as QBs. The argument could be extended to others (Troy Aikman w/Norv Turner, Marc Bulger w/Mike Martz, Matt Hasselbeck w/Holmgren, etc.). It's only natural that a young QB would be most comfortable given the chance to progress in a given system for more than a year or two. I only wish that Jason Campbell would get that chance.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

GTripp, I'm often on the same page with you, but I respectfully disagree with your opinion on this. You can perhaps say that McNabb and Manning were destined for greatness as a #2 and a #1 overall draft choice, but it certainly didn't hurt their progression being in the same system with the same offensive coach, from Day One. Indy DID fire Jim Mora, but did the smart thing by retaining Tom Moore as OC to continue Manning's development. And BTW, NOBODY saw or predicted all-time greatness for Favre or Brady when they first came into the league - they were afterthoughts. Favre was the #3 QB in Atlanta, and wasn't even the starter in GB when Holmgren traded for him. Brady was a so-so QB in college picked late in the draft. I would argue that their professional growth was accelerated by staying in one system under one offensive coach during their early development as QBs. The argument could be extended to others (Troy Aikman w/Norv Turner, Marc Bulger w/Mike Martz, Matt Hasselbeck w/Holmgren, etc.). It's only natural that a young QB would be most comfortable given the chance to progress in a given system for more than a year or two. I only wish that Jason Campbell would get that chance.

But what if Saunders' system just isn't the right one for Campbell? What if it's the Fassel/Musgrave system? I hear what you're saying, but I just wonder if we should step back and take another look at why we really want Campbell/Saunders to continue together.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

GTripp, I'm often on the same page with you, but I respectfully disagree with your opinion on this. You can perhaps say that McNabb and Manning were destined for greatness as a #2 and a #1 overall draft choice, but it certainly didn't hurt their progression being in the same system with the same offensive coach, from Day One. Indy DID fire Jim Mora, but did the smart thing by retaining Tom Moore as OC to continue Manning's development. And BTW, NOBODY saw or predicted all-time greatness for Favre or Brady when they first came into the league - they were afterthoughts. Favre was the #3 QB in Atlanta, and wasn't even the starter in GB when Holmgren traded for him. Brady was a so-so QB in college picked late in the draft. I would argue that their professional growth was accelerated by staying in one system under one offensive coach during their early development as QBs. The argument could be extended to others (Troy Aikman w/Norv Turner, Marc Bulger w/Mike Martz, Matt Hasselbeck w/Holmgren, etc.). It's only natural that a young QB would be most comfortable given the chance to progress in a given system for more than a year or two. I only wish that Jason Campbell would get that chance.

Exactly! If you draft a QB and give up 2 #1 picks for the guy, STOP CHANGING THE OFFENSES AROUND EVERY DAMN YEAR. QB is the most important position on your team. JC is going into his 4th year and this is going to be his 3rd offense in his NFL career. Sorry but that's just really stupid shit. You didn't see that stuff happening to the other top NFL QB's. Great example about Manning. Irsay canned Mora but he knew damn well to keep the offense in place. If the two fools (Snyder and Vinny) don't like Williams then fine. Get rid of the guy. But at all costs keep Al working with JC.

[MTK]

I'm really not putting much stock into the whole "the players are lobbying for GW" thing anymore. Of course the players are going to be in favor of as little change as possible.

In my job if my office VP was leaving, of course I would want someone from within to be promoted vs. someone coming in from outside. You know the people you work with and that's what you are comfortable with. Nobody likes change.

In the end no matter what happens the players are going to suit up and go to work for the new coach. Will some of them be disappointed initially if GW doesn't get it? Of course. But will they suck it up and move on? Definitely.

[MTK]

Just to throw this out there for discussion, why do we just assume it's all Snyder's fault?

Just for arguments sake what if Gibbs isn't 100% behind GW?

What if Williams was just a bad interview... or what if he wants too much control and or too much $$?

In the end Snyder is the one that is going to have to work closely with a new coach. Snyder is also the one that is the most informed about the potential candidates. As fans we know very little of what has gone on behind the scenes.

I think it's only fair that he brings in a guy that he's comfortable working with and someone that he feels is best for the job. Personally I'm going to hold off on my ultimate judgement until we see what the new HC is able to accomplish on the field. All of these emotional knee-jerk reactions are pretty silly and useless.

[QBall]

Snyder is no dumb guy. He has to know what the delay is causing so there must be a VERY good reason why its not Williams job already.

And yes, as fans we don't know what that is.

I would want anyone before Fassel in my opinion he's a lame duck.

Just don't know why Vinny and Snyder wouldn't interview Al Saunders for the job as a courtesy if you're gonna go Fassel?? The Fassel interveiw makes it fact that the first choice was Cower, then Carol, then anyone but Williams or our staff.

[ChillWill]

If Fassel had his first interview on 1/11 then maybe Fassell was my
cousin Vinnies first choice all along.

Fassell makes as much since as Harbaugh in Baltimore. I don't
understand the process and how these coaches are choosen.
Baltimore has first-hand experience with Fassell and he was never considered for the job. It boils down to personality and who can be controlled. I do not believe GW is a yes man and not as diplomatic as JG and there's the rub.

[2BIG2BSKINNY]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Just to throw this out there for discussion, why do we just assume it's all Snyder's fault?

Just for arguments sake what if Gibbs isn't 100% behind GW?

What if Williams was just a bad interview... or what if he wants too much control and or too much $$?

In the end Snyder is the one that is going to have to work closely with a new coach. Snyder is also the one that is the most informed about the potential candidates. As fans we know very little of what has gone on behind the scenes.

I think it's only fair that he brings in a guy that he's comfortable working with and someone that he feels is best for the job. Personally I'm going to hold off on my ultimate judgement until we see what the new HC is able to accomplish on the field. All of these emotional knee-jerk reactions are pretty silly and useless.

Great post but I think that thinking is valid! But...Snyder has not earned the right for this thinking!!!! we can only go on track record.

[QBall]

Fassel didn't get hired yet! Still could be Williams job, just no way of knowing anything. Also really sucks how our ENTIRE STAFF hasn't even been given a peep from Vinny or Dan, typical......

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Just to throw this out there for discussion, why do we just assume it's all Snyder's fault?

Just for arguments sake what if Gibbs isn't 100% behind GW?

What if Williams was just a bad interview... or what if he wants too much control and or too much $$?

In the end Snyder is the one that is going to have to work closely with a new coach. Snyder is also the one that is the most informed about the potential candidates. As fans we know very little of what has gone on behind the scenes.

I think it's only fair that he brings in a guy that he's comfortable working with and someone that he feels is best for the job. Personally I'm going to hold off on my ultimate judgement until we see what the new HC is able to accomplish on the field. All of these emotional knee-jerk reactions are pretty silly and useless.

To add to that, while Fassel wouldn't be my first choice (don't know if Williams would either), to just declare a Redskins apocalypse because of him is simply idiotic. We don't know what other coaches will be hired, what free agents signed, trades made, draft picks selected. There is so much more to be done between now and opening day, beyond just picking a head coach.

[The Zimmermans]

I couldn't be any more upset with Snyder than I am now. Fassel just got run out of two cities. WTF!!!!! The guy is definitely not the innovative mind we were looking for, and certainly not the disciplinarian. He's just FASSEL. The worst part is that this hire will run Williams out of town....who by the way, is the best coach on our staff. Everyone has a right to be angry, no matter which way you put it.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by The Zimmermans

I couldn't be any more upset with Snyder than I am now. Fassel just got run out of two cities. WTF!!!!! The guy is definitely not the innovative mind we were looking for, and certainly not the disciplinarian. He's just FASSEL. The worst part is that this hire will run Williams out of town....who by the way, is the best coach on our staff. Everyone has a right to be angry, no matter which way you put it.

I'm mad as he!! and I'm not going to take this anymore!

[2BIG2BSKINNY]

Don't like Fassell and can't get excited about the upcoming season. If the HC is GW then I can only think we will build on this year...just look at the giants run to the super bowl...get hot at the right time and you can punch your ticket. We are starting to do this but all will be for nothing when Fassel takes over.

[Hog1]

What he said!