Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies

[MTK]

At this point in his NFL career it shouldn't be as dramatic of a change for Campbell. He's already greatly improved his mechanics, decision making, and overall speed and timing of the NFL game. A coaching change is not going to be a disaster. It's part of the game.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

At this point in his NFL career it shouldn't be as dramatic of a change for Campbell. He's already greatly improved his mechanics, decision making, and overall speed and timing of the NFL game. A coaching change is not going to be a disaster. It's part of the game.

One note on that - look at some of the most successful QB's over the past decade, and they spent their formative years with the same offensive guru:

Tom Brady (Charlie Weis): 2000-2004
Brett Favre (Mike Holmgren): 1992-1998
Peyton Manning (Tom Moore): 1998-Present
Donovan McNabb (Andy Reid): 1999-Present

The Saunders system has worked everywhere else he has been, but we knew that there was a 2 year learning curve based on past results. I was really hoping Al Saunders would be able to work with Campbell for an extended period. Changing the OC every two years just kills offensive stability and chemistry. I guess that change for changes sake is embedded in The Danny's DNA, and he will never learn.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

One note on that - look at some of the most successful QB's over the past decade, and they spent their formative years with the same offensive guru:

Tom Brady (Charlie Weis): 2000-2004
Brett Favre (Mike Holmgren): 1992-1998
Peyton Manning (Tom Moore): 1998-Present
Donovan McNabb (Andy Reid): 1999-Present

The Saunders system has worked everywhere else he has been, but we knew that there was a 2 year learning curve based on past results. I was really hoping Al Saunders would be able to work with Campbell for an extended period. Changing the OC every two years just kills offensive stability and chemistry. I guess that change for changes sake is embedded in The Danny's DNA, and he will never learn.

I think you are looking at that backwards. The reason all those coaches held job/got promoted is because (and Reid is the exception to this rule) they were coaching all-time great quarterbacks. The results were excellent (because of the Quarterback), so the need for coaching upheaval was subdued.

[dgack]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think you are looking at that backwards. The reason all those coaches held job/got promoted is because (and Reid is the exception to this rule) they were coaching all-time great quarterbacks. The results were excellent (because of the Quarterback), so the need for coaching upheaval was subdued.

Are there counterexamples of great QB's who have flourished with a number of different offensive coordinators? Say, from attrition due to promotion?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by dgack

Are there counterexamples of great QB's who have flourished with a number of different offensive coordinators? Say, from attrition due to promotion?

I can't think of one who had a bunch of different coordinators, but I can give a few examples of QBs who stayed right on their development path despite upheaval in the coaching staff:

Ben Roethlisberger (2007) Cowher/Whisenhunt-->Arians/Tomlin
Marc Bulger (2006) Martz-->Linehan
Tom Brady (2005) Weis-->McDainels
Rich Gannon (2002) Gruden-->Trestman/Callahan

Obviously, the volume of coaches getting promoted/retiring duing a period of prolonged success are slim, but it seems like talented QBs will always overcome.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think you are looking at that backwards. The reason all those coaches held job/got promoted is because (and Reid is the exception to this rule) they were coaching all-time great quarterbacks. The results were excellent (because of the Quarterback), so the need for coaching upheaval was subdued.

GTripp, I'm often on the same page with you, but I respectfully disagree with your opinion on this. You can perhaps say that McNabb and Manning were destined for greatness as a #2 and a #1 overall draft choice, but it certainly didn't hurt their progression being in the same system with the same offensive coach, from Day One. Indy DID fire Jim Mora, but did the smart thing by retaining Tom Moore as OC to continue Manning's development. And BTW, NOBODY saw or predicted all-time greatness for Favre or Brady when they first came into the league - they were afterthoughts. Favre was the #3 QB in Atlanta, and wasn't even the starter in GB when Holmgren traded for him. Brady was a so-so QB in college picked late in the draft. I would argue that their professional growth was accelerated by staying in one system under one offensive coach during their early development as QBs. The argument could be extended to others (Troy Aikman w/Norv Turner, Marc Bulger w/Mike Martz, Matt Hasselbeck w/Holmgren, etc.). It's only natural that a young QB would be most comfortable given the chance to progress in a given system for more than a year or two. I only wish that Jason Campbell would get that chance.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

GTripp, I'm often on the same page with you, but I respectfully disagree with your opinion on this. You can perhaps say that McNabb and Manning were destined for greatness as a #2 and a #1 overall draft choice, but it certainly didn't hurt their progression being in the same system with the same offensive coach, from Day One. Indy DID fire Jim Mora, but did the smart thing by retaining Tom Moore as OC to continue Manning's development. And BTW, NOBODY saw or predicted all-time greatness for Favre or Brady when they first came into the league - they were afterthoughts. Favre was the #3 QB in Atlanta, and wasn't even the starter in GB when Holmgren traded for him. Brady was a so-so QB in college picked late in the draft. I would argue that their professional growth was accelerated by staying in one system under one offensive coach during their early development as QBs. The argument could be extended to others (Troy Aikman w/Norv Turner, Marc Bulger w/Mike Martz, Matt Hasselbeck w/Holmgren, etc.). It's only natural that a young QB would be most comfortable given the chance to progress in a given system for more than a year or two. I only wish that Jason Campbell would get that chance.

But what if Saunders' system just isn't the right one for Campbell? What if it's the Fassel/Musgrave system? I hear what you're saying, but I just wonder if we should step back and take another look at why we really want Campbell/Saunders to continue together.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

But what if Saunders' system just isn't the right one for Campbell? What if it's the Fassel/Musgrave system? I hear what you're saying, but I just wonder if we should step back and take another look at why we really want Campbell/Saunders to continue together.

I thought Campbell showed progress this season, which led me to believe that Year 3 under Saunders would lead to Campbell's "light bulb" moment, when everything became clear, and the game slowed down for him. We'll probably never know given the rumors flying around today.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

GTripp, I'm often on the same page with you, but I respectfully disagree with your opinion on this. You can perhaps say that McNabb and Manning were destined for greatness as a #2 and a #1 overall draft choice, but it certainly didn't hurt their progression being in the same system with the same offensive coach, from Day One. Indy DID fire Jim Mora, but did the smart thing by retaining Tom Moore as OC to continue Manning's development. And BTW, NOBODY saw or predicted all-time greatness for Favre or Brady when they first came into the league - they were afterthoughts. Favre was the #3 QB in Atlanta, and wasn't even the starter in GB when Holmgren traded for him. Brady was a so-so QB in college picked late in the draft. I would argue that their professional growth was accelerated by staying in one system under one offensive coach during their early development as QBs. The argument could be extended to others (Troy Aikman w/Norv Turner, Marc Bulger w/Mike Martz, Matt Hasselbeck w/Holmgren, etc.). It's only natural that a young QB would be most comfortable given the chance to progress in a given system for more than a year or two. I only wish that Jason Campbell would get that chance.

Exactly! If you draft a QB and give up 2 #1 picks for the guy, STOP CHANGING THE OFFENSES AROUND EVERY DAMN YEAR. QB is the most important position on your team. JC is going into his 4th year and this is going to be his 3rd offense in his NFL career. Sorry but that's just really stupid shit. You didn't see that stuff happening to the other top NFL QB's. Great example about Manning. Irsay canned Mora but he knew damn well to keep the offense in place. If the two fools (Snyder and Vinny) don't like Williams then fine. Get rid of the guy. But at all costs keep Al working with JC.