Coaching Rumor on SportsTalk 980

[jsnyder03]

SmootSmack,

You are usually one of the most level-headed guys here, but it sure seems like you are in "damage control" mode. Will the fan exodus of this potential move hurt more than the mismanagement of this great franchise?

Schneed and redsk1 seem to be right on point. Just look at the War Path's poll, not everyone but an overwhelming majority want GW. As much because of his earning the job HERE, rather than his previous head coaching resume.

And Paintrain, what's up with that sig comparing GW to Patrick Ramsey? Williams has had a successful NFL career! Comparing him to a disappointing 1st round pick is simply wrong.

For the record, I would like to see Williams as HC, keep Saunders and continue what Gibbs started. I would understand going with a Cowher type HC, but if we have to blow up the entire coaching staff for a "B" level HC, my heart-felt Redskins passion will take a huge hit.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsnyder03

SmootSmack,

You are usually one of the most level-headed guys here, but it sure seems like you are in "damage control" mode. Will the fan exodus of this potential move hurt more than the mismanagement of this great franchise?

Schneed and redsk1 seem to be right on point. Just look at the War Path's poll, not everyone but an overwhelming majority want GW. As much because of his earning the job HERE, rather than his previous head coaching resume.

And Paintrain, what's up with that sig comparing GW to Patrick Ramsey? Williams has had a successful NFL career! Comparing him to a disappointing 1st round pick is simply wrong.

For the record, I would like to see Williams as HC, keep Saunders and continue what Gibbs started. I would understand going with a Cowher type HC, but if we have to blow up the entire coaching staff for a "B" level HC, my heart-felt Redskins passion will take a huge hit.

LOL fan exodus?

I'd love to see it. We could afford to cut some dead weight.

Truth is all the people hating on this will be loving life if the team wins.

I think alot of people have too much emotion wrapped up in this decision and simply can't be objective about it right now. Maybe once the dust settles we'll see some more rational thinking. But for right now it's total freakout mode.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Truth is all the people hating on this will be loving life if the team wins.

Every true fan has to eat his share of crow every now and then.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by ArtMonkDrillz

Every true fan has to eat his share of crow every now and then.

Yet some never learn.

[dgack]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

LOL fan exodus?

I'd love to see it. We could afford to cut some dead weight.

Truth is all the people hating on this will be loving life if the team wins.

I think alot of people have too much emotion wrapped up in this decision and simply can't be objective about it right now. Maybe once the dust settles we'll see some more rational thinking. But for right now it's total freakout mode.

Yeah, there won't be any fan exodus. If we stuck around for Martyball and The Ol' Ball Coach, I see no great fan abandonment because of The Fossil.

But I think you and Smooty are both wrong if you think that fans won't be left with a bad taste in their mouth and a general embarrassment at the way Snyder runs OUR team (yes I said ours) if it goes down like this.

The reason that fans stuck by Joe in the second half of this season had as much to do with the way he led the team with dignity and passion than it did with the fact that we were winning games nobody gave us a chance in.

That same reason is why folks are going to be bitter with Snyder even if he brings in a totally new staff and the team starts winning some games. I don't think Skins fans are content to win a few games and feel like being a bunch of a-holes in the FO is okay as a result.

We want to return to the class organization we used to be. Sure, win a Super Bowl and a lot of sins are forgiven, but give me a break, we're all a little tired of crowning ourselves Super Bowl Champs in August and sitting at home watching other teams in the playoffs come December.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by dgack

Yeah, there won't be any fan exodus. If we stuck around for Martyball and The Ol' Ball Coach, I see no great fan abandonment because of The Fossil.

But I think you and Smooty are both wrong if you think that fans won't be left with a bad taste in their mouth and a general embarrassment at the way Snyder runs OUR team (yes I said ours) if it goes down like this.

The reason that fans stuck by Joe in the second half of this season had as much to do with the way he led the team with dignity and passion than it did with the fact that we were winning games nobody gave us a chance in.

That same reason is why folks are going to be bitter with Snyder even if he brings in a totally new staff and the team starts winning some games. I don't think Skins fans are content to win a few games and feel like being a bunch of a-holes in the FO is okay as a result.

We want to return to the class organization we used to be. Sure, win a Super Bowl and a lot of sins are forgiven, but give me a break, we're all a little tired of crowning ourselves Super Bowl Champs in August and sitting at home watching other teams in the playoffs come December.

Honestly I really don't care and Snyder probably doesn't either. There are plenty of people out there that have already made up their minds to hate the guy no matter what, and when situations like this come up they can't wait to pounce, despite the fact they don't completely know or understand the entire situation.

[dgack]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I really don't care and Snyder probably doesn't either.

It's pretty clear Snyder doesn't care at all. I'm a little mystified why you and the other mods are so surprised or disagree with the outrage, though.

The only conclusion I can reach is that you guys pretty much universally support whatever Snyder decides to do, beyond any loyalty to coaches or the team's overall legacy and history.

Frankly sometimes I think you guys really don't give enough credit to Skins fans, especially those on this board who disagree, many of whom have proven that they aren't just screaming hordes who want a win no matter what.

If this is the place for "The Knowledgeable Fan" why do you guys continue to speak condescendingly to people who don't just fall in line with whatever decree is handed down from Redskins Park?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by dgack

It's pretty clear Snyder doesn't care at all. I'm a little mystified why you and the other mods are so surprised or disagree with the outrage, though.

The only conclusion I can reach is that you guys pretty much universally support whatever Snyder decides to do, beyond any loyalty to coaches or the team's overall legacy and history.

Frankly sometimes I think you guys really don't give enough credit to Skins fans, especially those on this board who disagree, many of whom have proven that they aren't just screaming hordes who want a win no matter what.

If this is the place for "The Knowledgeable Fan" why do you guys continue to speak condescendingly to people who don't just fall in line with whatever decree is handed down from Redskins Park?

If Snyder didn't care, Mark Shapiro would add head coach to his Six Flags responsibilities.

Look, the 12thMans and Schneeds of this site who present valid arguments about their concerns-I have the utmost respect for them. Others who say stupid shit like "Danny needs to sell the team" "I'm getting rid of all my Redskins stuff" "I'll never watch another game" and so on-those people deserve to be mocked, ridiculed, and scorned. To the fullest extent. They don't need my respect of course, but if they're expecting it then they're certainly not going to get it with posts like that.

I think I've been pretty clear in saying Fassel is not my top choice. Neither is Williams really.

But what I've been saying (and I think others as well) is that a) no decision has been officially made so quit crying and b) why can't we see how everything plays out first (staff, roster) and make a more informed decision maybe sometime in the spring?

On another note. When I hear the Sean Taylor argument, while I understand it sometimes I can't help but relate it to when people ask "Why Giuliani?" and the answer is just "9/11"

[dgack]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

If Snyder didn't care, Mark Shapiro would add head coach to his Six Flags responsibilities.

Look, the 12thMans and Schneeds of this site who present valid arguments about their concerns-I have the utmost respect for them. Others who say stupid shit like "Danny needs to sell the team" "I'm getting rid of all my Redskins stuff" "I'll never watch another game" and so on-those people deserve to be mocked, ridiculed, and scorned. To the fullest extent. They don't need my respect of course, but if they're expecting it then they're certainly not going to get it with posts like that.

I think I've been pretty clear in saying Fassel is not my top choice. Neither is Williams really.

But what I've been saying (and I think others as well) is that a) no decision has been officially made so quit crying and b) why can't we see how everything plays out first (staff, roster) and make a more informed decision maybe sometime in the spring?

On another note. When I hear the Sean Taylor argument, while I understand it sometimes I can't help but relate it to when people ask "Why Giuliani?" and the answer is just "9/11"

I was with you on everything up until point "A". While you're right of course that no decision has been made, I think it's pretty clear based on what we KNOW has happened (who has been interviewed and how many times) that this thing is leaning one way.

There's a reason lawyers and DA's know when a jury comes back quickly or takes forever, it's good or bad for them.

And with due respect, to point "B" -- you're tilting at windmills right there. This is a discussion board and people want to discuss their hopes and fears as they relate to this franchise.

And why Spring? What's that going to tell us? As someone earlier said, we likely won't really know until the midpoint of next season. Be honest -- in the Spring you're still going to be telling people to stop jumping to conclusions and wait until the season starts, aren't you?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

If Snyder didn't care, Mark Shapiro would add head coach to his Six Flags responsibilities.

Look, the 12thMans and Schneeds of this site who present valid arguments about their concerns-I have the utmost respect for them. Others who say stupid shit like "Danny needs to sell the team" "I'm getting rid of all my Redskins stuff" "I'll never watch another game" and so on-those people deserve to be mocked, ridiculed, and scorned. To the fullest extent. They don't need my respect of course, but if they're expecting it then they're certainly not going to get it with posts like that.

I think I've been pretty clear in saying Fassel is not my top choice. Neither is Williams really.

But what I've been saying (and I think others as well) is that a) no decision has been officially made so quit crying and b) why can't we see how everything plays out first (staff, roster) and make a more informed decision maybe sometime in the spring?

On another note. When I hear the Sean Taylor argument, while I understand it sometimes I can't help but relate it to when people ask "Why Giuliani?" and the answer is just "9/11"

Nice post.

Saying you'll abandon the team if such and such happens is a ridiculous emotional reaction. When the season comes back around, not a single person here will be rooting against the Fassel-led Redskins.

This site is for knowledgeable discussion, let's take a cerebral approach. There are valid points to be made for Fassel, and valid ones against him. Same for Williams. So let's discuss, but making statements like "I quit the Redskins" is absurd and just clutters the board.

Besides, nobody knows what the hell's going to happen. Fassel could be the next Bill Belichick for all we know. So could GW.

Let's discuss it and debate it intelligently.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by dgack

It's pretty clear Snyder doesn't care at all. I'm a little mystified why you and the other mods are so surprised or disagree with the outrage, though.

The only conclusion I can reach is that you guys pretty much universally support whatever Snyder decides to do, beyond any loyalty to coaches or the team's overall legacy and history.

Frankly sometimes I think you guys really don't give enough credit to Skins fans, especially those on this board who disagree, many of whom have proven that they aren't just screaming hordes who want a win no matter what.

If this is the place for "The Knowledgeable Fan" why do you guys continue to speak condescendingly to people who don't just fall in line with whatever decree is handed down from Redskins Park?

Because anytime a major event happens we hear the same old crap. The world is ending, blah blah blah.

None of use are big Snyder supports, if that's what you think you really haven't paid much attention. We just get tired of the knee jerk, emotional, whiny reactions.

Who's telling anyone to fall in line?? If you read between the lines all we're saying is relax, take a deep breath, consider all angles to the story, don't jump to conclusions, and the sun will come up tomorrow.

[dgack]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Because anytime a major event happens we hear the same old crap. The world is ending, blah blah blah.

Well, that's the same response I got when I questioned why you guys jumped down my throat for posting when Mike Williams was released, too :P

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

If you read between the lines all we're saying is relax, take a deep breath

I wish that was a two-way street, because I feel pretty calm. I'm just not happy about the way I see Snyder making decisions.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Honestly I really don't care and Snyder probably doesn't either. There are plenty of people out there that have already made up their minds to hate the guy no matter what, and when situations like this come up they can't wait to pounce, despite the fact they don't completely know or understand the entire situation.

I agree. I also agree that many instinctively recoil when they hear Vinny's name uttered, even though those same people cannot tell you what Vinny does or what decisions he has made. I have defended both Vinny and Snyder whenever I feel that they are being unfairly dogged (which happens often). Both are scapegoats that people can point to with knee-jerk speed.

That being said, I think it is fair to criticize Dan if he does not hire Williams. Sure, Williams has his flaws (e.g., arrogance) and had a poor record as head coach of the Bills. However, most, if not all, of us fans wanted to see Williams replace Gibbs. What has changed since the days immediately following Gibbs' retirement that would make us change our minds? Not much. Most of us still want Williams and many of us will be upset if he's not our new head coach.

We could still win if Dan Snyder hires Fassel and Williams goes someplace else. We might lose if Snyder hires Williams as head coach. But, for now, I for one still want Williams and the rest of the coaching staff to stick around. That's not an indictment of Snyder, that's an endorsement of the franchise Joe Gibbs left us with.

[Beemnseven]

When an owner and director of player personnel have presided over a team which has collected a 50-62 record, who exactly should be the scapegoat?

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

When an owner and director of player personnel have presided over a team which has collected a 50-62 record, who exactly should be the scapegoat?

No one should be the scapegoat. Various head coaches have struggled in D.C., with and without Vinny and Danny's interference. Marty had full control of the team, yet he struggled. Gibbs essentially had full control and did not meet expectations. Various players have struggled in D.C., only to improve while playing elsewhere. We've had rashes of injuries at inopportune times. In other words, there are a whole host of reasons why this team's record has been mediocre since Danny became majority owner.