Are we the Detroit Lions?

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Not only that, but which franchise has a better record than the Redskins since 1993?

It's one that gets joked constantly in the NFL these days, and whose owner is ridiculed even more than Lil' Danny ....





The Oakland Raiders. They have a 106-134 record since '93. The Skins is 104-135-1.

Why are we arbitrarily pulling the year 1993 out of a hat? We've made the playoffs twice in the past three years. Detroit and Oakland have exactly ZERO playoffs berths among them in that span, and are both in the bottom 5 in overall winning percentage since 2003. That's more telling to me than what's happened since 1993. It's a what you done for me lately league.

I'm not saying The Danny is a great or even good owner at this point, but we're nowhere near Oakland or Detroit currently.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Why are we arbitrarily pulling the year 1993 out of a hat? We've made the playoffs twice in the past three years. Detroit and Oakland have exactly ZERO playoffs berths among them in that span, and are both in the bottom 5 in overall winning percentage since 2003. That's more telling to me than what's happened since 1993. It's a what you done for me lately league.

I'm not saying The Danny is a great or even good owner at this point, but we're nowhere near Oakland or Detroit currently.

I chose 1993 because that was the first year after Gibbs left -- the beginning of the 'Dark Ages' for Redskins fan, if you will.

Since then, only the Bengals, Lions, and Cardinals have an overall record worse than Washington.

Do we really want to see how we rank among the other teams since, say ... 2002?

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I chose 1993 because that was the first year after Gibbs left -- the beginning of the 'Dark Ages' for Redskins fan, if you will.

Since then, only the Bengals, Lions, and Cardinals have an overall record worse than Washington.

Do we really want to see how we rank among the other teams since, say ... 2002?

Does it piss me off that we've been in the "Dark Ages" this long, absolutely. But let's put this into some context. We were spoiled by Gibbs & Bethard in the 80s. JKC would spend whatever it took to win. Back then with no Free Agency or salary cap that was fine, but it takes time to adjust to losing a HoF coach and change the way you operate when you used to just outbid for the best players. Also consider JKC was in his twilight years. JKC dies and the franchise is in turmoil until the final purchase by Snyder in May 1999. Snyder made some bonehead moves, but finally had enough sense to beg Gibbs to come back. Gibbs obviously didn't bring us another SB, but 2 playoff appearances in his 4 years are a lot better than the previous 10 years.

I'm sure you don't need a history lesson and you already know this stuff but, we need to look at more than just our record since 1993 and consider the entire situation. Now the roster is much more talented and the franchise far more stable and positioned to win than in 2003. Why can't we be the Steelers, Cowboys, Packers, Chargers, Saints (2006), Jets (2006) and win with a new coaching staff. Zorn is well respected, Blanche is well respected, Campbell in the F.O. is well respected.

I believe a lot of folks here will be eating some serious crow when we have a solid season next year. If one of the mods doesn't, I will start a thread within a couple of days of the new HC being hired where everyone can make their predictions for next season and state why. The thread will be available for all to see and the "humble pie" will certainly be on the menu for many here. IMO we will be at least 9-7 as long as we make a solid HC hire, if I'm wrong I will be first line for my share.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Does it piss me off that we've been in the "Dark Ages" this long, absolutely. But let's put this into some context. We were spoiled by Gibbs & Bethard in the 80s. JKC would spend whatever it took to win. Back then with no Free Agency or salary cap that was fine, but it takes time to adjust to losing a HoF coach and change the way you operate when you used to just outbid for the best players. Also consider JKC was in his twilight years. JKC dies and the franchise is in turmoil until the final purchase by Snyder in May 1999. Snyder made some bonehead moves, but finally had enough sense to beg Gibbs to come back. Gibbs obviously didn't bring us another SB, but 2 playoff appearances in his 4 years are a lot better than the previous 10 years.

In the old days, with Beathard and Gibbs and JKC, we had the perfect formula and knew how to work it with precision. But with the dawn of the 'new era', the disturbing thing is that some teams have been able to figure out and adjust to the new system with free agency and the cap, while this franchise isn't quite there yet.

Some will say that we've got the cap licked. I say, not so fast.

To me, there are three categories that a team can fall into with regard to the salary cap --

-- they can manipulate it brilliantly, like the Colts, Patriots, and Steelers,

-- they can manage it, stay afloat but not really get anywhere, like the Redskins

-- or they can fall into "Cap Hell" like the 49ers of the late 90's.

We are not the only ones who are having trouble with the learning curve of the new era. But I sure as hell am ready to get someone in here who can figure it out. It is my contention that those people are not named Cerrato and Snyder.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

The disturbing thing is that some teams have been able to figure out and adjust to the new system with free agency and the cap.

Some will say that we've got the cap licked. I say, not so fast.

To me, there are three categories that team can fall into with regard to the salary cap --

-- they can manipulate it brilliantly, like the Colts, Patriots, and Steelers,

-- they can manage it, stay afloat but not really get anywhere, like the Redskins

-- or they can fall into "Cap Hell" like the 49ers of the late 90's.

We are not the only ones who are having trouble with the learning curve of the new era. But I sure as hell am ready to get someone in here who can figure it out.

What the Redskins are great at is forecasting long term market trends, and knowing exactly when the right time to buy is. Think about it:

We had a big free agency splurge in 2004 that built the defense of the Gibbs era. Those contracts were set to bite us in the balls in 2006, but we timed it up perfectly with the new CBA contract and the cap hell never came.

In 2006, we foresaw that the market was going to spike a year from then and decided to free agent splurge at the relatively reduced price as opposed to buying in the insane market that now exists in free agency.

Of course, the big issue in 2006 is not that we spent the money--those deals look excellent now by comparison, it's that we spent the money in part on a pair of god-awful football players. Can you imagine what this team would be if Archuleta and Lloyd, we bought say: Chris Hope and Joe Jurevicius?

The Pro Personnel scout we have has done a pretty crappy job, but that's why Scott Campbell got the promotion and he did not.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

What the Redskins are great at is forecasting long term market trends, and knowing exactly when the right time to buy is. Think about it:
We had a big free agency splurge in 2004 that built the defense of the Gibbs era. Those contracts were set to bite us in the balls in 2006, but we timed it up perfectly with the new CBA contract and the cap hell never came.

In 2006, we foresaw that the market was going to spike a year from then and decided to free agent splurge at the relatively reduced price as opposed to buying in the insane market that now exists in free agency.

Of course, the big issue in 2006 is not that we spent the money--those deals look excellent now by comparison, it's that we spent the money in part on a pair of god-awful football players. Can you imagine what this team would be if Archuleta and Lloyd, we bought say: Chris Hope and Joe Jurevicius?

The Pro Personnel scout we have has done a pretty crappy job, but that's why Scott Campbell got the promotion and he did not.

Is it really that they're good at "forecasting market trends," or is it more simply that some seasons we're in position to make a few purchases, and some seasons we're not?

Otherwise, it all seems to secure the theory that our front office is indeed good at keeping us from absolute Cap Hell, but that we haven't joined the elite group at the top that knows how to really work it.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Is it really that they're good at "forecasting market trends," or is it more simply that some seasons we're in position to make a few purchases, and some seasons we're not?

Otherwise, it all seems to secure the theory that our front office is indeed good at keeping us from absolute Cap Hell, but that we haven't joined the elite group at the top that knows how to really work it.

Well, I can't rule out that it's been blind luck, but I'm giving the benefit of the doubt, the timing of our deals have been tremendous.

We do it differently than everyone else. We take advantage of that cash over cap concept, and we find ways to invest more into our football team than the cap is designed to allow.

Again, the separate issue here is that we spend potentially "value" contracts on very overrated players. What I'm saying is as soon as this stops, you'll see the Redskins join the elite teams in terms of year to year sustainability.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

What the Redskins are great at is forecasting long term market trends, and knowing exactly when the right time to buy is. Think about it:

We had a big free agency splurge in 2004 that built the defense of the Gibbs era. Those contracts were set to bite us in the balls in 2006, but we timed it up perfectly with the new CBA contract and the cap hell never came.

In 2006, we foresaw that the market was going to spike a year from then and decided to free agent splurge at the relatively reduced price as opposed to buying in the insane market that now exists in free agency.

Of course, the big issue in 2006 is not that we spent the money--those deals look excellent now by comparison, it's that we spent the money in part on a pair of god-awful football players. Can you imagine what this team would be if Archuleta and Lloyd, we bought say: Chris Hope and Joe Jurevicius?

The Pro Personnel scout we have has done a pretty crappy job, but that's why Scott Campbell got the promotion and he did not.

Amen GTripp - it's about time we recognized that our pro scouting has been spotty. I'm hopeful that Scott Campbell will yield dividends in both the draft AND with bargain FA signings this offseason.