West Coast Offense - Good, Bad or Ugly?

[SmootSmack]

I'd be interested to see if his short to intermediate range accuracy increased as the season progressed last year. I think that part of the reason for his struggles was due to the receivers making the adjustment from left-handed, lo-mein with shrimp armed Brunell, to right-handed, Pachelbelled armed Campbell.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'd be interested to see if his short to intermediate range accuracy increased as the season progressed last year. I think that part of the reason for his struggles was due to the receivers making the adjustment from left-handed, lo-mein with shrimp armed Brunell, to right-handed, Pachelbelled armed Campbell.

I think I mentioned this in another thread where we discussed the WCO at great length.

One of the most important requirements for a QB in the WCO is to be an accurate passer. It is also important to realize that arm strength and being able to pass are not synonymous. Some QB's can throw a football 80yds. but they aren't good passers. Good passing involves accuracy, timing, and throwing the ball with enough touch so it's catchable. Most importantly, it requires a vast knowledge of the offense with an even greater sense of anticipation.

While it may be considered admirable to be able to throw the ball 35-40 yds. on a line, if the ball is off target or arrives in such a way that it's difficult to catch, such an ability is of dubious value.

Footwork is also an essential tool to be effective. Watching Montana, Young. McNabb and Hasselbeck perfect the mechanics of footwork, and how it's implemented is going to be crucial for Jason. Initally, I had a knock on this form of offense, but after watching Montana run it to perfection in the 80's made me a believer, mainly because of his extreme accuracy enabling his receivers to be able to run after the catch. My knock primarily was on it's lack of balance, I figured you would win some games, but eventually a pass first offense would come back to haunt you. Bad weather, a strong pass rush, lack of ball control, too many turnovers and a host of other reasons I offered as obstacles to sustained success. I felt like some others have said, "three things can happen when you put the ball in the air,and two of them are bad".

These are the things I'm sure we're going to make every atempt to make work for us in this offense:

1- Spread the defense over a large area of the field both horizontally and vertically;

2- Create mismatches in the speed, size, or number of receivers defenders have to cover;

3- Throw on any down and distance to avoid tendencies that defenses can key on;

4- Maintain possession through the air just as other teams have tried to do on the ground. I think these are the keys to the successful implementation of at least parts of this offense.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'd be interested to see if his short to intermediate range accuracy increased as the season progressed last year. I think that part of the reason for his struggles was due to the receivers making the adjustment from left-handed, lo-mein with shrimp armed Brunell, to right-handed, Pachelbelled armed Campbell.

Well there has to be a reason that our WRs dropped so many balls alst year. Campbell throws the ball at least 10 MPH harder and I think that really messed things up with the WRs. They'll get used to it.

[over the mountain]

good thread topic, i am also curious as to the nuances of the WCO and what NFL teams run it?

warpath experts please post your thoughts . .

[texasskinsfan]

Originally Posted by Ade Jimoh Fan Club

I know we have some smart football folks on this site - I was wondering what you thought about the switch to the West Coast Offense, specifically:

1) Is it just me or is this a terrible move for Campbell? He throws a sweet, sweet long ball, but his short dinks and dumps are horid. They are almost always off target - he just doesn't have that touch in his arsenal. Since this pretty much IS the West Coast Offense, do you think Campbell can change this part of his game, or is the beginning of the end for him...?

2) We definitely have the perfect receivers for this offense; fast, speedy, RAC WR's. Plus Portis has shown himself to be a great (and in my opinion, underutilzed) receiver. Do you think we are good in this area?

3) What does this mean for the O-Line? I know we had a lot of injuries last year, but they group should be starting next year intact and we all know they are a pretty good group of linemen. Does the West Coast Offense call for a different set of O-Lineman? (i.e. smaller and more agile?)

4) We all know that the priorities for the draft are D-Linemen and DB's. Is the move to West Coast Offense going to re-prioritize any of our draft picks?

Thanks for your input!

THE ADE

I think that under the direction of Jim Zorn JC will learn to make rhythm passes and he'll become a very productive QB. His rating will go up a lot because Zorn will turn him into the QB he will have to be in order to run the WCO. I think while at Auburn they ran a type of WCO too. And it certainly is more simplified than Al's 700 playbook schemes.

[Paintrain]

Well nobody in the league runs the true version of the WCO anymore but there are a number of teams (Seattle, GB, Philly, KC, Buffalo, NYJ, Jax, Minn, NO, TB, SF) that run some variation of it. In it's truest sense, Campbell would probably struggle because most of the passes are slants and skinny posts hitting the WR in stride.. The version we'll run will likely be closer to the version Philly and Seattle run which has much more of a vertical element as well as an increased number of crossing patterns..

McNabb and Campbell, at this stage in Campbell's development, have very similar throwing motions/accuracy issues but McNabb has become very efficient and proficient (especially when he has WR to work with) in that offense. The way they've done that is to move him out of the pocket, have him get in the rythym short range with screens and swings and taking shots deep down the field.

The other great thing about the WCO is there isn't significant pressure on the OL to hold their blocks for long.. Most drops are a 5 step drop rather than 7, most of the time the ball is out very quickly or the QB is on the move, there's not really much bouncing from read to read and risking holding on to the ball forever.

As for our personnel with the WCO, Moss and ARE are well equipped to be complimentary receivers but we'd really benefit from having a tall, fast WR who can make the catches over the middle and rack up some YAC as well, that should be priority #1 for free agency/trade.. Cooley should have an outstanding year as well next year..

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Well nobody in the league runs the true version of the WCO anymore but there are a number of teams (Seattle, GB, Philly, KC, Buffalo, NYJ, Jax, Minn, NO, TB, SF) that run some variation of it. In it's truest sense, Campbell would probably struggle because most of the passes are slants and skinny posts hitting the WR in stride.. The version we'll run will likely be closer to the version Philly and Seattle run which has much more of a vertical element as well as an increased number of crossing patterns..

McNabb and Campbell, at this stage in Campbell's development, have very similar throwing motions/accuracy issues but McNabb has become very efficient and proficient (especially when he has WR to work with) in that offense. The way they've done that is to move him out of the pocket, have him get in the rythym short range with screens and swings and taking shots deep down the field.

The other great thing about the WCO is there isn't significant pressure on the OL to hold their blocks for long.. Most drops are a 5 step drop rather than 7, most of the time the ball is out very quickly or the QB is on the move, there's not really much bouncing from read to read and risking holding on to the ball forever.

As for our personnel with the WCO, Moss and ARE are well equipped to be complimentary receivers but we'd really benefit from having a tall, fast WR who can make the catches over the middle and rack up some YAC as well, that should be priority #1 for free agency/trade.. Cooley should have an outstanding year as well next year..

I agree with pretty much everything that you said, but I do not agree with NO being a WCO team. I think that Peyton is more of a Air Coryell Offense type of coach. At least that is how he was under Parcelles and his 1st season in NO...

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

I agree with pretty much everything that you said, but I do not agree with NO being a WCO team. I think that Peyton is more of a Air Coryell Offense type of coach. At least that is how he was under Parcelles and his 1st season in NO...

Yeah, I'd agree he's on the outer fringe of the WCO.. He has much more of a vertical focus but has a lot of passes out of the backfield and crossing passes in his scheme..

[SFREDSKIN]

It's ironic that the Redskins will now run the WCO and San Francisco will run a version of the Coryell offense (Martz)

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

It's ironic that the Redskins will now run the WCO and San Francisco will run a version of the Coryell offense (Martz)

LOL. Good call with that one

[schndr_tdd]

Campbell's problem is when he holds on to the ball to long,he gets nervous..Getting rid of the ball fast in the slant game gives the offense the edge..It limits turnovers because the corner doesnt have as good of a chance to react and get square to the ball..

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Ade Jimoh Fan Club

I know we have some smart football folks on this site - I was wondering what you thought about the switch to the West Coast Offense, specifically:

1) Is it just me or is this a terrible move for Campbell? He throws a sweet, sweet long ball, but his short dinks and dumps are horid. They are almost always off target - he just doesn't have that touch in his arsenal. Since this pretty much IS the West Coast Offense, do you think Campbell can change this part of his game, or is the beginning of the end for him...?

2) We definitely have the perfect receivers for this offense; fast, speedy, RAC WR's. Plus Portis has shown himself to be a great (and in my opinion, underutilzed) receiver. Do you think we are good in this area?

3) What does this mean for the O-Line? I know we had a lot of injuries last year, but they group should be starting next year intact and we all know they are a pretty good group of linemen. Does the West Coast Offense call for a different set of O-Lineman? (i.e. smaller and more agile?)

4) We all know that the priorities for the draft are D-Linemen and DB's. Is the move to West Coast Offense going to re-prioritize any of our draft picks?

Thanks for your input!

THE ADE

Mr. Ade,
Very good post. You ask some very important questions.
The true WCO puts a lot more of the pressure and responsibility on the QB, more so than our last system. The West Coast Offense employs a variety of formations and pre-snap motion designed to confuse defenders. This can also confuse young QB's.
The WCO uses the short passing game in place of running the ball so much, so the amount of throwing is going to automatically increase compared to last year. The WCO passes the ball at least 60% of the time. In some cases like the Eagles, even more then 60%. The WCO tries to avoid tendencies that defenses can key on so they throw on any down to diffrent parts of the field. In order to run the true WCO successfully Campbell will need to be ready mentally.
One more thing, Gibbs protected Campbell by running the ball more and keeping a TE or a back in to provide extra blocking. That goes against the WCO philosophy which relys heavily on an ability to flood a defense with more receivers than they can handle.

[Campbell17]

Campbell was good at the beginning of the season but sorta lost it at the end. He was always throwing picks in big moments and wasnt very accurate. I think that he definatley has a lot of work to do because he can throw the long ball, but it isnt very accurate. He definately needs to improve his decision making because from what I have seen it has been very poor. I also think the receivers have a lot of work to adjust to this too because Coooooley cant do al the short throws. In 05 I remember at least 2 or three passes where Moss got a screen from Brunell and juked one guy and was off to the races. Randle El will have to be better to.

Bottom line: This is gonna be ugly.

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by Campbell17

Campbell was good at the beginning of the season but sorta lost it at the end.

Campbell threw for over 300 yards in week 11 and 12 and then got hurt in week 14. Not sure that qualifies as losing it at the end for a rookie quarterback. He did make some mistakes on game ending drives, but people seem to forget that he had a knack for driving us all the way down the field every single time we were in a close game in the final minutes it's just that he had problems right at the very end with regards to finishing. In my mind that was a very good sign from a young QB.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

Campbell threw for over 300 yards in week 11 and 12 and then got hurt in week 14. Not sure that qualifies as losing it at the end for a rookie quarterback. He did make some mistakes on game ending drives, but people seem to forget that he had a knack for driving us all the way down the field every single time we were in a close game in the final minutes it's just that he had problems right at the very end with regards to finishing. In my mind that was a very good sign from a young QB.

I completely agree.

Campbell has now been above the league average for two straight seasons. He's not yet in his prime. That alone would designate him our "franchise quarterback."

Someone has to win the game when it gets down to the wire. The fact that it hasn't quite happened for Campbell yet is no reason to discredit him for taking us there.