Ocho Cinco In B&G

[Bill B]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

Beat me to the post, but yeah I heard that on Mike & Mike this morning also.

All they would go as far as saying is that "The Redskins have made "overtures" to the Bengals with regard to Chad Johnson". Much like the "overtures" they made with regard to Lance Briggs last spring.

Although I can see Washington re-negotiating current contracts with players to get under the cap and make room, I just cannot see the Bengals going through with any trade of Johnson, to anyone.

So don't rush right out and buy a burgundy and gold #85 jersey just yet.

Ocho-Cinco is under contract through 2011 in Cincinatti. By trading Johnson NOW, the Bengals organization will have to accept MILLIONS of dollars in "Dead Money". That is a lot of money that counts against the Bengals salary cap. And it just does not make good business sense to trade him this year.

Sandtrap - you nailed it - the Bengals are not going to trade Johnson and ruin their cap just because CJ is upset. It would cost the Bengals $8.8 million in cap hits to trade him right now - plus if they did trade him they would have to get a replacement which will cost even more money - it is just not practical for the Bengals to do this. Just because a player is unhappy does not mean a GM or owner is going to relent to his trade demand immediately. People need to start looking at salary cap ramifications before they start specualting that a player will be traded.

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by Bill B

Sandtrap - you nailed it - the Bengals are not going to trade Johnson and ruin their cap just because CJ is upset. It would cost the Bengals $8.8 million in cap hits to trade him right now - plus if they did trade him they would have to get a replacement which will cost even more money - it is just not practical for the Bengals to do this. Just because a player is unhappy does not mean a GM or owner is going to relent to his trade demand immediately. People need to start looking at salary cap ramifications before they start specualting that a player will be traded.

Why not Santana Moss and a 2nd round pick?

You don't need to pay for a placement... the ammo is certainly there, I just simply don't understand the cap logistics behind a move like this. Don't know if it's plausible or not. Anyone that knows the salary cap well, please feel free to chime in... I'm curious to the possibility of something blockbuster like this.

[sandtrapjack]

Originally Posted by RobH4413

Why not Santana Moss and a 2nd round pick?

You don't need to pay for a placement... the ammo is certainly there, I just simply don't understand the cap logistics behind a move like this. Don't know if it's plausible or not. Anyone that knows the salary cap well, please feel free to chime in... I'm curious to the possibility of something blockbuster like this.

Lemme see if I can help....

The "Dead Money" I mentioned is the remaining portion of his pro-rated signing bonus.

If Johnson stays under contrat with the Bengals, he would get his signing bounus in (lack for better words) yearly installments. He gets a portion of that signing bonus each year.

Now if a player is traded BEFORE his contract expires, then the remaining amount of the signing bonus gets piled into one lump-sum and counts AGAINST the teams salary cap.

So if Johnson is traded, then you have FOUR YEARS of the remaining signing bonus that is (remaining signing bonus installment) X 4 yrs = 8.8 mill that instantly counts against the teams cap.

So as Bill B mentioned, by trading Johnson, the Bengals would incur and instantaneous 8.8 hit against thier cap with no player to show for it.

Hence the term "Dead Money"

Sure any team can propose a trade that would acquire Johnson, but are the Bengals going to allow it and voluntarily place themselves 8.8 million in the hole on the cap?

Now if Johnson was entering the FINAL year of his contract, that dead money hit is almost nil and a trade would be feasible for Cincy.

But with 4 years remaining on his current contract, and 8 Mill in dead money, I just do nor forsee the Bengals entertaining trade offers.

[RobH4413]

Is it possible for a player to "absorb" some of that cap hit himself by restructuring his contract?

If Chad was trying to get some gigantic contract with the Redskins... it may be worth it to restructure... Once again, I'm only ignorantly speculating. Where's Canuck when you need him.

[Bill B]

Originally Posted by RobH4413

Is it possible for a player to "absorb" some of that cap hit himself by restructuring his contract?

If Chad was trying to get some gigantic contract with the Redskins... it may be worth it to restructure... Once again, I'm only ignorantly speculating. Where's Canuck when you need him.

Rob - I think it depends on the contract that was signed - with Adam Archuleta and the way his contract was made with the Skins his bonus money was staggered - he got $5 million as a signing bonus and than his next $5 million bonus was a roster bonus if he was on the Redskins the following year. I think when we traded him to Chicago the Skins were able to not absorb the 2nd roster bonus because Archuleta agreed to decline the second bonus because the Bear's were willing to give him that bonus on his new contract with their team. This was a great move by our Front office in not only were we able to pry away a 6th round pick for a player that was not going to contribute to the team anymore, but we were able to lower the cap hit in the process compared to if we just cut Adam Archuleta outright.

With Chad Johnson his massive bonus has already been paid to him so the Bengals would be stuck with the dead money no matter what the Skins agreed to.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

No to Ocho Cinco.

1) Not what a first time HC needs; a 30 yr. old, very expensive, self-serving head case in the locker room.

2) Johnson "disappears" quite a bit. His numbers are misleading, he will explode in a couple of games and then do little or nothing for 3-4 weeks at a time.

3) Not sure the Bengals are going to want to take an $ 8M + cap hit anyway

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

No to Ocho Cinco.

1) Not what a first time HC needs; a 30 yr. old, very expensive, self-serving head case in the locker room.

2) Johnson "disappears" quite a bit. His numbers are misleading, he will explode in a couple of games and then do little or nothing for 3-4 weeks at a time.

3) Not sure the Bengals are going to want to take an $ 8M + cap hit anyway

Explain that part more please.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

Explain that part more please.

Obviously the NFL is a business and players need to look out for their best interest; but threatening to sit out 2008 to force a trade, trashing the Bengals organization in multiple interviews, trashing the Cincy media, pushing reporters, on top of the whole "look at me" celebrations is what I'm referring to.

I could get past the celebration thing if he's putting up TDs for the Skins, but the guy is in a 4-year contract and pretty well paid. Things are a little bumpy up in Cincy and he's ready to bail. What happens if JC struggles or Zorn makes a few mistakes.....not enough upside from Chad for the money and potential headaches for the Skins IMO.

Chad Johnson Shoves Member of the NFL's Media Relations Department - FanHouse - AOL Sports Blog

[sandtrapjack]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

No to Ocho Cinco.

1) Not what a first time HC needs; a 30 yr. old, very expensive, self-serving head case in the locker room.

2) Johnson "disappears" quite a bit. His numbers are misleading, he will explode in a couple of games and then do little or nothing for 3-4 weeks at a time.

3) Not sure the Bengals are going to want to take an $ 8M + cap hit anyway

I tend to disagree with note 2)

to the contrary if you look at the production of T. J. Houshmandzadeh this past season, you will see he has more yards and TD's than CJ.

But I credit that as a direct reflection of CJ's abilities. With most teams shifting coverges to Johnsons side and doubling him, it created more opportunities for Houshmandzadeh to excel.

That is what a WR of Johnsons abilities brings to the table. He does not have to get 25 TD's and 1500 yds per year to contribute. His mere presence on the field forces defenses to account for him at all times, thereby creating opportunities for his team mates.

Just think of the possibilities of Moss and Johnson on the field. Who do you double team? Pick your poison is all I can say.

Throw ARE in the slot and you have provided Campbell with several legitimate targets. Did I mention Cooley?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

I tend to disagree with note 2)

to the contrary if you look at the production of T. J. Houshmandzadeh this past season, you will see he has more yards and TD's than CJ.

But I credit that as a direct reflection of CJ's abilities. With most teams shifting coverges to Johnsons side and doubling him, it created more opportunities for Houshmandzadeh to excel.

That is what a WR of Johnsons abilities brings to the table. He does not have to get 25 TD's and 1500 yds per year to contribute. His mere presence on the field forces defenses to account for him at all times, thereby creating opportunities for his team mates.

Just think of the possibilities of Moss and Johnson on the field. Who do you double team? Pick your poison is all I can say.

Throw ARE in the slot and you have provided Campbell with several legitimate targets. Did I mention Cooley?

There's no denying what CJ would bring to the table and he would certainly make the entire offense better by just being in the lineup.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

to the contrary if you look at the production of T. J. Houshmandzadeh this past season, you will see he has more yards and TD's than CJ.

But I credit that as a direct reflection of CJ's abilities. With most teams shifting coverges to Johnsons side and doubling him, it created more opportunities for Houshmandzadeh to excel.

That is what a WR of Johnsons abilities brings to the table. He does not have to get 25 TD's and 1500 yds per year to contribute. His mere presence on the field forces defenses to account for him at all times, thereby creating opportunities for his team mates.

Just think of the possibilities of Moss and Johnson on the field. Who do you double team? Pick your poison is all I can say.

Throw ARE in the slot and you have provided Campbell with several legitimate targets. Did I mention Cooley?

I understand a true # 1 will cause the defense to shift, but if you look at the production of the true #1s, they are for the most part consistent. Randy Moss, Reggie Wayne (this year with Harrison out), Torry Holt, Terrell Owens. It also cuts both ways, Houz is no mystery as a Pro Bowl caliber receiver. He is not the deep threat that CJ is, but a very solid receiver that the defense still must account for, this takes away the ability for teams to double CJ all game and should open up things for him.

I'm not saying CJ is a bad player, he is very good, but the cost/benefit for the Skins at this point in time is not good IMO.

[70Chip]

This is the dumbest idea I've ever heard, which means that Snyder is almost certainly serious about it. Of course our reward for taking this idiot off of Mike Brown's hands is that he'll vote to opt out of the CBA and leave us in cap hell. It's all happening again God Dammit.

[Gtothearry]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

This is the dumbest idea I've ever heard, which means that Snyder is almost certainly serious about it. Of course our reward for taking this idiot off of Mike Brown's hands is that he'll vote to opt out of the CBA and leave us in cap hell. It's all happening again God Dammit.

I agree with ya. I've been asked multiple times over the years with snyder "how do ya think the new coach will do" ? I always said as long as Snyder owns the team the skins will go nowhere. Well, when Gibbs was hired I thought maybe I was wrong. I thought Snyder had turned a page.

This offseason has proved me wrong once again. I just can't beleive some of the stupid stuff he does. He completely screwed the family bond this years team had with the firing of GW. I really think players would have moved mountains to stay here. However, Snyder through that out the window. The players can clearly see there is no loyalty in the organization. Y would anyone want to stick around.

Why can't we go into a draft one year with all of our draft picks?
I can't see giving up a 1st and a 3rd or two 2nd round picks for CJ. To even mention giving up Moss I would consider pure stupidity. However, we are talking about Snyder here huh?

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by Gtothearry

I agree with ya. I've been asked multiple times over the years with snyder "how do ya think the new coach will do" ? I always said as long as Snyder owns the team the skins will go nowhere. Well, when Gibbs was hired I thought maybe I was wrong. I thought Snyder had turned a page. This offseason has proved me wrong once again. I just can't beleive some of the stupid stuff he does. He completely screwed the family bond this years team had with the firing of GW.

Why can't we go into a draft one year with all of our draft picks?

we have all but 1 of our picks this year

[Gtothearry]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

we have all but 1 of our picks this year

Yea, for now. However, if the CJ trade goes down there goes at least the 1st.