Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Bishop Hammer

Andy Reid started out as a Quarterback coach and went straight to being a head coach with the Eagles; ditto with Mooch as well.

Why do people say these things without knowing the facts? To make matters worse, this exact thing has been discussed in this very thread.
1- Andy Reid was qb coach and assistant head coach in GB before going to philly.
2- Mooch was the head coach for university of California before going to the NFL.
This is the 3rd or 4th time in the past 2 or 3 days I have had to correct these types of things.
I understand we all make mistakes, however, if you do not know something, please don't present it as fact.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Why do people say these things without knowing the facts? To make matters worse, this exact thing has been discussed in this very thread.
1- Andy Reid was qb coach and assistant head coach in GB before going to philly.
2- Mooch was the head coach for university of California before going to the NFL.
This is the 3rd or 4th time in the past 2 or 3 days I have had to correct these types of things.
I understand we all make mistakes, however, if you do not know something, please don't present it as fact.

What did it mean that Andy Reid was the assistant head coach beyond the title?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

What did it mean that Andy Reid was the assistant head coach beyond the title?

Well, he "assisted" in "head coach" duties. Stop focusing on how the SKins do things when it comes to titles and understand that other teams actually call it like they want it. Therefore Reid had a lot more experience since he assisted the head coach.
I suppose everyone should just ignore titles now?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Well, he "assisted" in "head coach" duties. Stop focusing on how the SKins do things when it comes to titles and understand that other teams actually call it like they want it. Therefore Reid had a lot more experience since he assisted the head coach.
I suppose everyone should just ignore titles now?

Heck of an answer. He "assisted" in "head coach" duties.

Does that mean he ran practices when Holmgren called in sick? Was he part of the player selection process for all units (the way Williams was here)? Was he involved in the game plan and play design each week (the way Zorn was in Seattle)? Did he just get that title as a preventive measure to keep him in Green Bay?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Heck of an answer. He "assisted" in "head coach" duties.

Why thank you.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Just a few points here:

1. Fans who think Zorn will be the most successful of the new NFL coaches next year are probably also looking at the teams that the new coaches have inherited. The Falcons, Ravens and Dolphins are a mess; the Redskins made the playoffs. So Zorn starts out with more to work with here. If the Redskins finish with a worse record than either the Dolphins or the Falcons in 2009, that would be a serious problem. Maybe the Ravens can make one more run with their good - but aging quickly - defense, but the other two teams here just plain stink.


2. Tim Kawakami is a rather respected columnist and beat writer with the San Jose Mercury-News. He's been successful in at least two cities that I can recall and has pretty good sources for "stuff". The folks here on the Warpath who called him a "douchebag" because he didn't think Jim Zorn was all that good a selection and attacked him as a know-nothing didn't seem to demonstrate that they knew a whole lot about Mr. Kawakami's credentials. If you are going to attack someone for not being objective when he vented his spleen about Jim Zorn, it would be good for the attacker to be sure to know something about the subject before venting his spleen about Mr. Kawakami...


3. Ray Handley and Bobby Petrino have been heralded as bad hires - worse than Jim Zorn. That's definitely true from my perspective. Let me add some other names here that folks can research if they want to see what really bad coaching selections can do to a franchise:

Joe Kuharich
Richie Kotite (twice)
Wayne Fontes
Marion Campbell (twice)


4. Jim Zorn is taking a HUGE step up in terms of responsibility for a football team. If anyone doubts that, then he probably also thinks that Sonny Jurgensen would be a great back-up QB for the Skins next year too. Can Zorn make that HUGE step up? No one - not Tim Kawakami nor any poster here nor Danny Boy nor Jim Zorn himself - will KNOW the answer to that until about this time next year. So, fasten your seat belts and get ready for an interesting ride next season - - hopefully with a minimum of molar-jarring bumps...

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Just a few points here:

2. Tim Kawakami is a rather respected columnist and beat writer with the San Jose Mercury-News. He's been successful in at least two cities that I can recall and has pretty good sources for "stuff". The folks here on the Warpath who called him a "douchebag" because he didn't think Jim Zorn was all that good a selection and attacked him as a know-nothing didn't seem to demonstrate that they knew a whole lot about Mr. Kawakami's credentials. If you are going to attack someone for not being objective when he vented his spleen about Jim Zorn, it would be good for the attacker to be sure to know something about the subject before venting his spleen about Mr. Kawakami...

My problem with the article is that it was factually inaccurate as to Zorn's past experience AND apparently inaccurate as to the esteem Zorn is held among his peers. Further, it is appears to insert a personal prejudice about Zorn based on an interview done some years ago. Finally, it ignores the fact that QB coach and other position coaches have been promoted in the past and succeeded. Then, despite all this, he recommends Singletary who, in many respects, is indistinguishable from Zorn in terms of experience and lacks Zorn's pedigree (i.e. the Holmgren coaching tree).

Understand, I am not touting Zorn as the greatest hire ever, nor am I saying that his peers think that he will step in and do a phenomenal job. Rather, I am merely critiquing a printed opinion by a journalist, credible or not, as poorly researched and obviously biased. It would seem to me that, if Mr. Kawakami is as respected as you say, then he should be a little more careful in his printed words whether they are mere blog or in a newsarticle.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Why do people say these things without knowing the facts? To make matters worse, this exact thing has been discussed in this very thread.
1- Andy Reid was qb coach and assistant head coach in GB before going to philly.
2- Mooch was the head coach for university of California before going to the NFL.
This is the 3rd or 4th time in the past 2 or 3 days I have had to correct these types of things.
I understand we all make mistakes, however, if you do not know something, please don't present it as fact.

But wait! You said Zorn has been nothing more than a QB coach which is also incorrect.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

But wait! You said Zorn has been nothing more than a QB coach which is also incorrect.

pwned!

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

But wait! You said Zorn has been nothing more than a QB coach which is also incorrect.

To be fair, I think jsarno in passing once mentioned that Zorn was OC at Utah State. He said it dismissively as if it counted for nothing, but he did say it

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

To be fair, I think jsarno in passing once mentioned that Zorn was OC at Utah State. He said it dismissively as if it counted for nothing, but he did say it

Thank you for pointing that out SS, at least someone was paying attention.
I did say it more than once, but you are most certainly correct in saying that I said it dismissively. I do not think being an OC at Utah St. many moons ago is worth having a shot at a demanding HC job in DC. He deserved a shot at our OC job...not HC job. He hasn't earned that yet.
Hopefully it won't matter and Zorn will be an amazing coach for us.

[JLee9718]

I'll take Zorn over Fassel any day of the week. And I think he's taking over a Redskins team that needs plenty of work. The offensive line just isn't up to the level of some of the rest of the NFL teams. Everybody is giving Joe Gibbs too much credit for assembling a playoff team, but the fact is Gibbs was never the same coach that he was in the '80's and up to the '90's when he quit. There was too much hesitation in calling plays, and some of the plays were too conservative. Now Jason Campbell needs some more experience as a starting QB using Zorn's offense, but what I'm seeing is everybody expects Zorn to win right away. I thinl everything's going to be fine with Zorn as the HC, but he's not going to be perfect the first year. DS got it right!

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

To be fair, I think jsarno in passing once mentioned that Zorn was OC at Utah State. He said it dismissively as if it counted for nothing, but he did say it

Ok. Fair enough. But I'd probably add if we're going to dismiss college experience, then mentioning Mooch being a head coach in college would probably not apply to the argument either.

Either way, I think it's unfair to say the hiring of Jim Zorn is the worst move ever made in the NFL, when we haven't seen what the guy can do as head coach yet. We can say it's probably one of the more riskier moves, which is ok. Didn't a bunch of Redskins fans complain about how conservative this team was? Zorn deserves a chance before the media, and fans who believe what the media says to be the gospel truth, slaps a scolding judgment on the team and the owner.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Ok. Fair enough. But I'd probably add if we're going to dismiss college experience, then mentioning Mooch being a head coach in college would probably not apply to the argument either.

The problem with saying that is the fact that hiring a college HC is not uncommon, and teams have had success with those kinds of hirings in the past. The point was Mooch had HC experience on some level, and having it in with a D1 college is common, Zorn had not been an HC at ANY level. The only coach we can compare to Zorn at this point (in terms of no HC experience, no OC/DC in the pros experience, and promoted from a lower coaching position) is Mike Tice. There might be more, but no one has correctly identified anyone else to this point.

Either way, I think it's unfair to say the hiring of Jim Zorn is the worst move ever made in the NFL, when we haven't seen what the guy can do as head coach yet.

I will agree with you on that...we won't know until a few years from now, and to jump out and say it this early is not wise.

We can say it's probably one of the more riskier moves, which is ok.

True.

Didn't a bunch of Redskins fans complain about how conservative this team was?

LOL, that's actually pretty funny. However, they were playing the interview process pretty conservatively, but you comment is still funny.

Zorn deserves a chance before the media, and fans who believe what the media says to be the gospel truth, slaps a scolding judgment on the team and the owner.

Part of my comment is that he doesn't deserve this chance. He deserves and earned the OC chance, not the HC chance...but since it's done and over with, and he's our coach, good or bad, you are right.