Loose Change

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well I found this:


Southpark Episode on 9/11 Conspiracy - Video Download | 911Blogger.com

LOL, that's the one I was talking about. LOL.

[EternalEnigma21]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I will say this one last thing, anyone that beleives that it was a conspiracy is spitting in the face of all those that lost their lives, ESPECIALLY the rescue workers.

Why? I don't even think it was a conspiracy or anything, but I'm curious about the conviction to condemn those who question things...

It may be my wiring but I fail to see a logical connection between questioning the story and spitting in the face of the victims.

Maybe I find it hard to swallow because of all of the "If you don't support the war you don't support the troops" propaganda bs that is spread. It seems like it comes from that same mentality and that bothers me...


Not trying to be an asshole, just asking for clarification... from anyone who has that view...

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by canthetuna

Why? I don't even think it was a conspiracy or anything, but I'm curious about the conviction to condemn those who question things...

It may be my wiring but I fail to see a logical connection between questioning the story and spitting in the face of the victims.

Maybe I find it hard to swallow because of all of the "If you don't support the war you don't support the troops" propaganda bs that is spread. It seems like it comes from that same mentality and that bothers me...

Not trying to be an asshole, just asking for clarification... from anyone who has that view...

Like just about everything else, skepticism is good in moderate doses. At a certain point, however, skepticism turns into paranoid lunacy.

[EternalEnigma21]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Like just about everything else, skepticism is good in moderate doses. At a certain point, however, skepticism turns into paranoid lunacy.

I'm a pretty skeptical person. One of those "believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see" kinda guys. I know its related to trust issues I have, so I have trouble swallowing any story.

I just don't make the connection between being skeptical and being disrespectful.

[drew54]

Remember, Most of Germany under Hitler's rule was PRO Hitler.

Again, who are the sheep. Is it the people who want to question the government, or the people who don't question.

The question really boils down to, Do you trust your gov't to tell you the truth. Should we be told the truth. Could the truth cause a panic. Could the truth cause a revolution. Could the truth make us all go, Duh we already knew that.

I think it is healthy to question how our government is ran. When we stop questioning we are one step closer to sheep.

And I think his question was "Make you think a little, huh?"

Most of the replies to this message were flat out attack calling JGLOTR a Moron.

How many people here think there have been suspicious of moments in our Governments history. Lets see, Pearl Harbor. JFK Assassination. Now weather Roosevelt knew they were coming or Oswald acted alone, did you stop and think about it.


My opinion on the film. Definitely made me think. After reading through all of the other links, made me think some more. Is it possible, maybe. Is it probable, maybe not. Either way there are always some strange coincidents that will raise eyebrows.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by drew54

Remember, Most of Germany under Hitler's rule was PRO Hitler.

Again, who are the sheep. Is it the people who want to question the government, or the people who don't question.

The question really boils down to, Do you trust your gov't to tell you the truth. Should we be told the truth. Could the truth cause a panic. Could the truth cause a revolution. Could the truth make us all go, Duh we already knew that.

I think it is healthy to question how our government is ran. When we stop questioning we are one step closer to sheep.

And I think his question was "Make you think a little, huh?"

Most of the replies to this message were flat out attack calling JGLOTR a Moron.

How many people here think there have been suspicious of moments in our Governments history. Lets see, Pearl Harbor. JFK Assassination. Now weather Roosevelt knew they were coming or Oswald acted alone, did you stop and think about it.


My opinion on the film. Definitely made me think. After reading through all of the other links, made me think some more. Is it possible, maybe. Is it probable, maybe not. Either way there are always some strange coincidents that will raise eyebrows.

I think, therefore I am. If silly conspiracy theories make you think, great. Can we find "suspicious" moments throughout history - sure. Will fools be led to think foolish thoughts b/c of them? Yes. Will wise men spend lifetimes contemplating them? Probably not.

The mere fact that something "makes you think" does not mean it should be a) given credence; or b) disseminated as thoughtful prose. In each case, foolish or misleading statements can cause considerable harm - by baselessly impugning reputations, by inhibiting people from acting, by spreading calumny, etc.

Did this foolish video make me think. Yes - it made me think, "What a piece of crap, I hope somebody has done the research on it so I don't have to." A brief search and, wa-laa, that which I thought was confirmed. Do I ever need to think about it again? No. As others have done the research, no one ever need think about it again.

[JGisLordOfTheRings]

Originally Posted by drew54

Remember, Most of Germany under Hitler's rule was PRO Hitler.

Again, who are the sheep. Is it the people who want to question the government, or the people who don't question.

The question really boils down to, Do you trust your gov't to tell you the truth. Should we be told the truth. Could the truth cause a panic. Could the truth cause a revolution. Could the truth make us all go, Duh we already knew that.

I think it is healthy to question how our government is ran. When we stop questioning we are one step closer to sheep.

And I think his question was "Make you think a little, huh?"

Most of the replies to this message were flat out attack calling JGLOTR a Moron.

How many people here think there have been suspicious of moments in our Governments history. Lets see, Pearl Harbor. JFK Assassination. Now weather Roosevelt knew they were coming or Oswald acted alone, did you stop and think about it.


My opinion on the film. Definitely made me think. After reading through all of the other links, made me think some more. Is it possible, maybe. Is it probable, maybe not. Either way there are always some strange coincidents that will raise eyebrows.

Wow. The first person to come on, besides Dynamite Rave, and NOT give me a buncha shit for what I brought up.

Unreal.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by JGisLordOfTheRings

Wow. The first person to come on, besides Dynamite Rave, and NOT give me a buncha shit for what I brought up.

Unreal.

Look, you posted a video that has been debunked as a work of fiction. You then act as if this could possibly be true which, for the reasons I stated above, is incredibly disrespectful to those who died. When the foolishness of your initial post was brought to light by SS (with links showing how foolish it was), you attack people for pointing out the ridiculousness of your initial post AND clearly show you haven't done any research on the actual video ("How can you deny the physical evidence", etc.).

If you make ridiculous statements and tout them as thought provoking, expect to get ridiculed.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by canthetuna

I'm a pretty skeptical person. One of those "believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see" kinda guys. I know its related to trust issues I have, so I have trouble swallowing any story.

I just don't make the connection between being skeptical and being disrespectful.

Well, to further SGG's point, honest skepticism is fine good and healthy. But, skepticism that refuses to relent can be disrespectful to the opposing view and to those that support it.

Question Authority. But if authority answers, do them the courtesy of listening. If you do not, then you are acting with the same arrogance towards authority and towards those that support the authority that you would assign to the authorities themselves.

The irrational skeptic is arrogant and disrespectful at heart - "I know you are lying, no matter what evidence exists. You can't fool me b/c I am, essentially, smarter than you."

In situations like 9/11, where first responders risked their lives, to continue to assert a conspiracy and to question the real cause of the act is to say to those who risked their lives - you were duped, you were played the fool, your "heroism" was nothing more than a show for others.

This was an act of war. Palestinians literally danced in the streets at the news and al-quieda has claimed, proudly, that it was their actions that did this. The first responders actions were not manipulated acts, but authentic acts of heroism.

Crap like "Loose Change" attempts to cheapen those facts by perverting the reality of the situation.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Well, to further SGG's point, honest skepticism is fine good and healthy. But, skepticism that refuses to relent can be disrespectful to the opposing view and to those that support it.

Question Authority. But if authority answers, do them the courtesy of listening. If you do not, then you are acting with the same arrogance towards authority and towards those that support the authority that you would assign to the authorities themselves.

The irrational skeptic is arrogant and disrespectful at heart - "I know you are lying, no matter what evidence exists. You can't fool me b/c I am, essentially, smarter than you."

In situations like 9/11, where first responders risked their lives, to continue to assert a conspiracy and to question the real cause of the act is to say to those who risked their lives - you were duped, you were played the fool, your "heroism" was nothing more than a show for others.

This was an act of war. Palestinians literally danced in the streets at the news and al-quieda has claimed, proudly, that it was their actions that did this. The first responders actions were not manipulated acts, but authentic acts of heroism.

Crap like "Loose Change" attempts to cheapen those facts by perverting the reality of the situation.

Wow, that is a fantastic post Joeredskin. I would say I couldn't say it better myself, but I doubt I would have come anywhere close to that good a post. Great job.

[EternalEnigma21]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

In situations like 9/11, where first responders risked their lives, to continue to assert a conspiracy and to question the real cause of the act is to say to those who risked their lives - you were duped, you were played the fool, your "heroism" was nothing more than a show for others.

I agree with everything in your statement, with this exception. No matter who was behind it or anyone's opinion of that, those guys would have been there doing their job. It wouldn't matter if it had been George Bush himself flying that plane, they would've been their saving lives and giving them as well. Maybe there are extreme radicals who will say their efforts were a waste, but any time anyone is put into a situation like that and risks and gives their lives in an attempt to save others... especailly knowingly, as happened on that day... the heroism cannot be argued, and I've never seen it as such.

I've listened to the 911 conspiracies. I know aq claimed responsibility and accept that as fact. However, how our govt responded to that, with the patriot act, the refusal to accept and acknowledge faultered security by this administration, and in fact to use that day of horror for political gain time and time again... especially in the justification of the Iraqi war... sickens me.

Kinda like how Toby Keith writes all these songs about patriotism and everyon admires him... he sells several million albums and all of his soldier and american themed songs hit #1... I guess the skeptic that I am is saddened by the thought of someone profiting so greatly from such tragedy. He may not have been anything to do with the cause, but the profitability has been great for him.

[BrudLee]

Here's the thing though - the second thing you brought up was "After watching that video, I feel like I have been duped and violated by my own country."

Loose Change was originally planned as a work of fiction. It was then marketed as a documentary. This is like me being afraid to go camping in Maryland after seeing The Blair Witch Project. Fiction, presented as documentary.

I am afraid to go camping in Maryland, by the way. Not because of ghosts, but because of deer ticks.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BrudLee

Here's the thing though - the second thing you brought up was "After watching that video, I feel like I have been duped and violated by my own country."

Loose Change was originally planned as a work of fiction. It was then marketed as a documentary. This is like me being afraid to go camping in Maryland after seeing The Blair Witch Project. Fiction, presented as documentary.

I am afraid to go camping in Maryland, by the way. Not because of ghosts, but because of deer ticks.

Wuss!

Blair Witch Project was kind of surreal to watch, because my family, friends and I used to go to the park where it was filmed all the time.

[JoeRedskin]

Also, if you look both SS and Buster came back with points to show you the error of your ways. Buster make have called you an idiot, but, hey, he did it w/ respectfully and limited to the precondition that "if you believe this stuff". You responded, relying only the debunked video, that they were baseless in their indignation for simply disageeing with you. The argument devolved from that point on.

Your original post was idiotic and it was rightfully classified as such. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

[hooskins]

I mean I liked Loose Change(fan of conspriracy theories) but it was fiction.