Free Trade: Fight It, or Embrace It

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Saden,

I don't know that there are any "universally known labor laws." If you wanted to list all universally accepted labor laws, I'm not sure that you would come up with any list whatsoever. But, I don't believe that corporations should run roughshod over laborers abroad. I just don't know where the line should be drawn.

Dmek,

I believe that outsourcing does create unemployment. However, you shouldn't make decisions solely based on the fact that there is a tragedy of sorts taking place. Decisions about free trade should be made with an eye towards the consequences of those decisions. I don't think we can fight outsourcing effectively; it's simply the result of a new world economy. It's sad, but true IMO.

i agree. but for the united states to be involved, there has to be something that they could gain from it. right now, we are gaining lower prices for just about all goods. is that worth the price of losing production jobs? that will never come back? in my eyes, the risk/ reward doesn't merit the U.S. to be part of the agreement

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by dmek25

i agree. but for the united states to be involved, there has to be something that they could gain from it. right now, we are gaining lower prices for just about all goods. is that worth the price of losing production jobs? that will never come back? in my eyes, the risk/ reward doesn't merit the U.S. to be part of the agreement

Keeping those jobs here would result in much, much higher inflation. You'd be singing a different tune when the cost of everything goes up 8-10% every year, while your wages go up no more than 3% per year.

Fighting free trade is the easiest way to drive your economy into the ground. Those in American manufacturing jobs simply must adjust. While that field is contracting, other fields are growing very strongly (ie healthcare). It's not easy for those people to just switch careers, but it's better than driving up prices for all 300 million of us who live here.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Keeping those jobs here would result in much, much higher inflation. You'd be singing a different tune when the cost of everything goes up 8-10% every year, while your wages go up no more than 3% per year.

Fighting free trade is the easiest way to drive your economy into the ground. Those in American manufacturing jobs simply must adjust. While that field is contracting, other fields are growing very strongly (ie healthcare). It's not easy for those people to just switch careers, but it's better than driving up prices for all 300 million of us who live here.

being in production, this has started almost 5 years ago. we hourly are ask to do 2, and sometimes 3 different jobs at once. you talk about switching careers. easier said then done. how is someone my age, with limited schooling, going to accomplish this? i say lets make the playing field even. how can something that's made in china get into the American market with lead paint on it? isn't there any guidelines that must be followed? why do i need to give up my job, to satisfy the Chinese economy. we American workers have proved time and time again, that no one can match our quality. lets bring the other countries up to our standards,. or lower our standards, so that we can compete equally

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by dmek25

being in production, this has started almost 5 years ago. we hourly are ask to do 2, and sometimes 3 different jobs at once. you talk about switching careers. easier said then done. how is someone my age, with limited schooling, going to accomplish this? i say lets make the playing field even. how can something that's made in china get into the American market with lead paint on it? isn't there any guidelines that must be followed? why do i need to give up my job, to satisfy the Chinese economy. we American workers have proved time and time again, that no one can match our quality. lets bring the other countries up to our standards,. or lower our standards, so that we can compete equally

Bringing them up to our standards would mean forcing our perceptions of quality on them - forcing them to pay minimum wage, give employees breaks, limit them to 8 hour days, force the countries to allow workers to unionize, etcetera. How would this be any different than forcing democracy down Iraq's throat?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Bringing them up to our standards would mean forcing our perceptions of quality on them - forcing them to pay minimum wage, give employees breaks, limit them to 8 hour days, force the countries to allow workers to unionize, etcetera. How would this be any different than forcing democracy down Iraq's throat?

What? You're comparing economic negotiation to the use of force by military means? Cuba or Sudan would have been a more palpable comparisons.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by saden1

What? You're comparing economic negotiation to the use of force by military means? Cuba or Sudan would have been a more palpable comparisons.

Only in the sense that it's forcing our way of life on someone.

Using military force to push democracy, or using economic force to push our labor laws. The killing people part certainly is a glaring difference, but they still have one big thing in common: in both cases we're pushing an aspect of American life on other countries.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Only in the sense that it's forcing our way of life on someone.

Using military force to push democracy, or using economic force to push our labor laws. The killing people part certainly is a glaring difference, but they still have one big thing in common: in both cases we're pushing an aspect of American life on other countries.

I am inclined to believe that it is acceptable to have standards and require others to meet your standards before conducting business. This is business 101. As a matter of fact this principle can be and is in fact applied in all phases of ones life. We consistently do it with respect to the politicians we vote for, the goods we buy, the companies we work for, what we choose to believe in, and even the kind of people we associate with. It's not a crime to have expectations.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Bringing them up to our standards would mean forcing our perceptions of quality on them - forcing them to pay minimum wage, give employees breaks, limit them to 8 hour days, force the countries to allow workers to unionize, etcetera. How would this be any different than forcing democracy down Iraq's throat?

in my opinion, invading Iraq was one of the dumbest moves any American president could have done. it took an already fragile economy, and put it into a recession. if its not alright to have kids in America working, then why is it in china? for the simple fact that you can pay them peanuts. basically making them slaves. what about the emissions? its not alright to subject Americans to the dirty air, causing all kinds of health issues, but its OK to have the Chinese with the dirtiest air on the planet? and you have to answer your own question about Iraq, seeing that you are for the war. i say lets look out for our fellow americans first. then we get to help others

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by dmek25

in my opinion, invading Iraq was one of the dumbest moves any American president could have done. it took an already fragile economy, and put it into a recession. if its not alright to have kids in America working, then why is it in china? for the simple fact that you can pay them peanuts. basically making them slaves. what about the emissions? its not alright to subject Americans to the dirty air, causing all kinds of health issues, but its OK to have the Chinese with the dirtiest air on the planet? and you have to answer your own question about Iraq, seeing that you are for the war. i say lets look out for our fellow americans first. then we get to help others

First, the war did not put us into a recession. This recession, more than anything, was the result of the crunch on consumer credit thanks to the American public's unsustainable spending, culminated by purchasing way more house than many could afford.

But am I the only one that sees the inconsistency in your logic? Help Americans first, that's the reason we shouldn't go to Iraq. But at the same time you're saying we should stipulate that nations enact labor laws similar to ours, or else we won't allow our corporations to go overseas and offer jobs to those people? Both are forms of interventionalism.