Portis restructures (Skins about $5M under the cap)

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I think this locker-room leader stuff is largely crap. We have plenty of "leaders" and I think paying a little more than a guy is worth for his on the field value simply to keep one is dubious. I worry about paying our locker-room leaders who actually contribute something valuable on the field. And I would argue his return abilities are not irreplaceable by any stretch.

I agree on the leaders part, but Rock's on field performance is worth more than 2 mil in guarentees.

Not a whole lot more, but 2 million guarenteed over say 3 years would be well below market value for Rock.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I agree on the leaders part, but Rock's on field performance is worth more than 2 mil in guarentees.

Not a whole lot more, but 2 million guarenteed over say 3 years would be well below market value for Rock.

Maybe but I am not convinced market value is the correct value for his production. I really do think he could be replaced on kick returns and we'd probably see very little if any difference. He just isn't great. He certainly isn't bad but nothing about his performance has ever led me to believe he does things that aren't rather easily replaced. I tend to think his returns are more a function of solid teams play rather than his ability in general.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Maybe but I am not convinced market value is the correct value for his production. I really do think he could be replaced on kick returns and we'd probably see very little if any difference. He just isn't great. He certainly isn't bad but nothing about his performance has ever led me to believe he does things that aren't rather easily replaced. I tend to think his returns are more a function of solid teams play rather than his ability in general.

I tend to agree... I think Betts would be just as effective on kick returns if not more.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I tend to agree... I think Betts would be just as effective on kick returns if not more.

But that 3rd RB, if you let Cartwright go, has to be someone who's excellent on kickoff and punt coverage. Because Rock is. If you let him walk and don't replace him with as good a coverage guy (Marcus Mason is not an answer there) then our kick coverage teams take a hit.

I say throw the guy a bone, he deserves a chunk of change.

He's not going to get the $2 million guaranteed, or whatever it is he wants, on the open market. We can let him sit out there for a bit and then give him $1 million guaranteed and bring back one of our best all-around special teamers.

Betts was good as a kick returner, but if you can have your 3rd RB doing that task just as effectively, it makes you deeper because it keeps your #2 back fresher and healthier. And you need to be deep at RB. Look at the Pack and the Giants last year. Ahmad Bradshaw?

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

But that 3rd RB, if you let Cartwright go, has to be someone who's excellent on kickoff and punt coverage. Because Rock is. If you let him walk and don't replace him with as good a coverage guy (Marcus Mason is not an answer there) then our kick coverage teams take a hit.

I say throw the guy a bone, he deserves a chunk of change.

He's not going to get the $2 million guaranteed, or whatever it is he wants, on the open market. We can let him sit out there for a bit and then give him $1 million guaranteed and bring back one of our best all-around special teamers.

Betts was good as a kick returner, but if you can have your 3rd RB doing that task just as effectively, it makes you deeper because it keeps your #2 back fresher and healthier. And you need to be deep at RB. Look at the Pack and the Giants last year. Ahmad Bradshaw?

I tend to agree actually I am just trying to bring some perspective to those who see way more than what is really there when it comes to Rock.

I do:

- Like his leadership and it isn't completely worthless but it isn't s main decision maker for me
- Think his overall contribution on Teams is valuable
- Think he is a hard worker

but I don't think he is a fantastic returner or is irreplaceable and the money he wants is simply just too much for what he gives us.

If we can get him for more like what Schneed has said then I am down with that. He is worth more than a random guy with no ties to the team who can do the same job so give him a little bit of a premium but let's not even go close to paying him anything that takes more than minimal cap space.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I tend to agree actually I am just trying to bring some perspective to those who see way more than what is really there when it comes to Rock.

I do:

- Like his leadership and it isn't completely worthless but it isn't s main decision maker for me
- Think his overall contribution on Teams is valuable
- Think he is a hard worker

but I don't think he is a fantastic returner or is irreplaceable and the money he wants is simply just too much for what he gives us.

If we can get him for more like what Schneed has said then I am down with that. He is worth more than a random guy with no ties to the team who can do the same job so give him a little bit of a premium but let's not even go close to paying him anything that takes more than minimal cap space.

What money does he want exactly? Does anyone have a good handle on that? Is he talking about $2M guaranteed for next season or over the life of a 3 or 4 year contract? If he was $6-8M guaranteed over the life of the deal I could see where that is way overpriced, but if he just wants a $2M signing bonus that seems quite reasonable. Amortized over a 4 year deal you're talking about $500K/year. Doesn't seem like that all that much to ask for, but I guess if the market dictates less than the Skins should do what is in their interest.