The Official draft Marcus Monk thread.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

Are we are really in the days now when 4.57 is considered slow. I am not ging to say that 4.57 is elite speed but come on that is faster than alot of the guys in the NFL and to top it off timed speed and game speed are two completely different things

absolutely...and keep in mind, he only played 6 games after the knee injury, and he is likely not back up to full speed.
The ONLY reason he is considered a 4th-6th rounder is because of his knee. If there was no injury issue, then he'd be a late first rounder or early 2nd rounder, and go no later than the 3rd round.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by jsarno

absolutely...and keep in mind, he only played 6 games after the knee injury, and he is likely not back up to full speed.
The ONLY reason he is considered a 4th-6th rounder is because of his knee. If there was no injury issue, then he'd be a late first rounder or early 2nd rounder, and go no later than the 3rd round.

that's...just...not....true. at all.


look, i know you might be a bit defensive, since this is your thread, and i do actually agree we should draft him if he's there in the 7th round, but he's not the 2nd coming of jerry rice, so let's not over-hype a fairly average college receiver just cause he's sorta tall.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by That Guy

that's...just...not....true. at all.


look, i know you might be a bit defensive, since this is your thread, and i do actually agree we should draft him if he's there in the 7th round, but he's not the 2nd coming of jerry rice, so let's not over-hype a fairly average college receiver just cause he's sorta tall.

Funny you bring up Rice...while I do not think he is the 2nd coming of Rice (there will never be another Rice), Rice ran a 4.70 40 at the combine.

[DGreene28]

Originally Posted by jsarno

absolutely...and keep in mind, he only played 6 games after the knee injury, and he is likely not back up to full speed.
The ONLY reason he is considered a 4th-6th rounder is because of his knee. If there was no injury issue, then he'd be a late first rounder or early 2nd rounder, and go no later than the 3rd round.

Sorry to burst your bubble man, but this is just not the case. I've looked at tape of him before the injury and he is no where near as talented as the top WR's in this draft. He is a hair over 6'4" and 222 lbs and he gets up 9 reps of 225 lbs ???? He'll get man-handled at the next level by CB's. They'll stack the line and knock him on his ass. He also doesn't have the athleticism to get around them.

He is a project at best and is not our answer for an impact WR next season.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by DGreene28

Sorry to burst your bubble man, but this is just not the case. I've looked at tape of him before the injury and he is no where near as talented as the top WR's in this draft. He is a hair over 6'4" and 222 lbs and he gets up 9 reps of 225 lbs ???? He'll get man-handled at the next level by CB's. They'll stack the line and knock him on his ass. He also doesn't have the athleticism to get around them.

He is a project at best and is not our answer for an impact WR next season.

I don't think the reps matter for WR's when they first come out. I recall Randy Moss being an absolute twig. It's not uncommon for WR's to come out of college kind of weak. How many DB's are they going to face that can put up 225lbs more than 9 times?
With the exception of a few wr's, they are all projects.
I think you underestimate him.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

Are we are really in the days now when 4.57 is considered slow. I am not ging to say that 4.57 is elite speed but come on that is faster than alot of the guys in the NFL and to top it off timed speed and game speed are two completely different things

for a WR or CB, yeah, it's pretty slow. mike williams ran a 4.8, and and we see how well he did (I believe iron mike ditka referred to him as a "slow tight end")... mario williams ran a 4.7 at 290 lbs. you do have to account size/weight into the speed, but james hardy is taller and a 4.5 guy WITH good production, and that's why he's a 1st rounder, and this guy might not be taken.

honestly, by his results, i don't think he really prepared well for the combine, which can be both showing and make him a better value since he won't go as early.

he's still tall, he still has mediocre production, and he's still had a lot of opportunities to run block and run special teams, so a 7th rounder on him would be a good value pick.

[DGreene28]

Originally Posted by That Guy

4.57 is in no way good speed. it just isn't. and he's closer to 6'4" than 6.5".

I have the official resuts from the combine...

Monk is 6'4"

He ran a 4.64

His vertical was 34.5"

He's slower then most linebackers

[drew54]

This guy.

Player - James Hardy
College - Indiana
Height - 6'5 3/8
Weight - 217
40 Yard - 4.47
Reps - 18
Vertical - ?
Shuttle - 4.20
60 Yard - ?
Cone - 6.84
Broad Jump - 10'5"

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by drew54

This guy.

Player - James Hardy
College - Indiana
Height - 6'5 3/8
Weight - 217
40 Yard - 4.47
Reps - 18
Vertical - ?
Shuttle - 4.20
60 Yard - ?
Cone - 6.84
Broad Jump - 10'5"

The guy apparently has some pretty bad character issues. Not close to Pacman Jones level but still more trouble then he's worth. Usually a two game suspension is a pretty bad sign. Most coaches are fine with keeping a player on the bench for a half.


James Hardy
WR | (6'5", 218, 4.58) | INDIANA

Scouts Grade: 90

Flags: (C: CHARACTER) Problems on and off the fieldView by: Player | NCAA School | Position | NFL Team | Flag | All Ranked Players | NFL Draft History You are signed into Insider and have access to the exclusive draft content below.
Strengths: Flashes the ability to get a clean release working against press coverage and can get open quickly when corners give him a cushion. Athletic and fluid changing directions when footwork is sound. Shows good toughness over the middle and can hold onto the ball after taking the big hit. Doesn't have great top-end speed but is a long-strider, shows good sideline awareness and tracks the ball fairly well so can make the occasional play downfield. Has excellent size and rarely gets muscled out of routes. Stays alert, shows good awareness and works back to the quarterback when the protection starts to break down. Uses wide frame to shield defenders from the ball and can make tough catches in traffic. Snatches the ball out of the air, is fluid turning upfield after catches and can pick up yards after contact. Times jumps well and has the potential to develop into a productive red zone target.

Weaknesses: Rounds off too many cuts, doesn't set corners up by changing speeds and is an inconsistent route-runner at this point. Lacks ideal explosiveness and is going to have a harder time separating from man coverage at the NFL level. Takes too long to reach top speed, isn't going to make defenders miss in space and isn't much of a big-play threat after the catch. While has great size and flashes the ability to get into position doesn't play with enough of a mean streak and effort is inconsistent when blocking. Indiana suspended him for two games for an off-the-field incident in 2006 and character is somewhat of a concern.

Overall: Indiana red-shirted Hardy during his true freshman season in 2004. Hardy appeared in ten games during the 2005 season. In 2006, he appeared in ten games recording 51 catches, 722 receiving yards and ten receiving touchdowns. Hardy appeared in all 13 games of the 2007 season recording 79 catches, 1,125 receiving yards and 16 receiving touchdowns. Hardy lacks ideal suddenness and will struggle to separate versus some of the elite cover corners at the next level. He also comes with some character baggage that will cause him to drop a bit during draft weekend. However, Hardy possesses a unique blend of size, athleticism and reliable hands, which is why he could be selected as high as the second round.

[DGreene28]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

The guy apparently has some pretty bad character issues. Not close to Pacman Jones level but still more trouble then he's worth. Usually a two game suspension is a pretty bad sign. Most coaches are fine with keeping a player on the bench for a half.


James Hardy
WR | (6'5", 218, 4.58) | INDIANA

Scouts Grade: 90

Flags: (C: CHARACTER) Problems on and off the fieldView by: Player | NCAA School | Position | NFL Team | Flag | All Ranked Players | NFL Draft History You are signed into Insider and have access to the exclusive draft content below.
Strengths: Flashes the ability to get a clean release working against press coverage and can get open quickly when corners give him a cushion. Athletic and fluid changing directions when footwork is sound. Shows good toughness over the middle and can hold onto the ball after taking the big hit. Doesn't have great top-end speed but is a long-strider, shows good sideline awareness and tracks the ball fairly well so can make the occasional play downfield. Has excellent size and rarely gets muscled out of routes. Stays alert, shows good awareness and works back to the quarterback when the protection starts to break down. Uses wide frame to shield defenders from the ball and can make tough catches in traffic. Snatches the ball out of the air, is fluid turning upfield after catches and can pick up yards after contact. Times jumps well and has the potential to develop into a productive red zone target.

Weaknesses: Rounds off too many cuts, doesn't set corners up by changing speeds and is an inconsistent route-runner at this point. Lacks ideal explosiveness and is going to have a harder time separating from man coverage at the NFL level. Takes too long to reach top speed, isn't going to make defenders miss in space and isn't much of a big-play threat after the catch. While has great size and flashes the ability to get into position doesn't play with enough of a mean streak and effort is inconsistent when blocking. Indiana suspended him for two games for an off-the-field incident in 2006 and character is somewhat of a concern.

Overall: Indiana red-shirted Hardy during his true freshman season in 2004. Hardy appeared in ten games during the 2005 season. In 2006, he appeared in ten games recording 51 catches, 722 receiving yards and ten receiving touchdowns. Hardy appeared in all 13 games of the 2007 season recording 79 catches, 1,125 receiving yards and 16 receiving touchdowns. Hardy lacks ideal suddenness and will struggle to separate versus some of the elite cover corners at the next level. He also comes with some character baggage that will cause him to drop a bit during draft weekend. However, Hardy possesses a unique blend of size, athleticism and reliable hands, which is why he could be selected as high as the second round.

He was arrested for domestic battery but the charges were dropped. If there were more instances then I would say pass, but there was only one problem during his career and he has been outspoken in addressing it directly. Would you take a chance on Randy Moss knowing what you know now? I thought so. We also took a chance on Fred Smoot a 1st round talent that fell on draft day becasue of character concerns and I think he's turned out alright.

Also, the guy shows a lot of class on the field, scored over 30 TD's in his career and flips it to the ref each time.

[SmootSmack]

I wouldn't take him before the 5th (at the earliest)

[Monkeydad]

We should draft this Monk and make him wear #18.

[mcarey032]

I think that is a good idea. I would like to mix in there as well to see what he can do. I agree about Hackett. Yes he knows the system, but that doesn't mean that he is necessarily going to produce.

[SmootSmack]

Wait, late first-rounder or early second if not for the knee?

No, that's definitely not true. I would think that Kelly, Sweed, Hardy, Thomas, Jackson, Bennett, Bowman, Caldwell, Hawkins will all be selected before Monk if all were healthy and I really doubt that 10 WRs would be selected among the first 30-40 picks.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Wait, late first-rounder or early second if not for the knee?

No, that's definitely not true. I would think that Kelly, Sweed, Hardy, Thomas, Jackson, Bennett, Bowman, Caldwell, Hawkins will all be selected before Monk if all were healthy and I really doubt that 10 WRs would be selected among the first 30-40 picks.

My comment was misunderstood:

If there was no injury issue, then he'd be a late first rounder or early 2nd rounder, and go no later than the 3rd round.

So I'm saying he'd likely be looked at around the late 1st / early 2nd, and for sure be picked by the end of the 3rd.