Using a high pick on QB.

[irish]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Not a whole lot of drafted QBs can come in their first two years and play above average football.

And yes, Campbell needs to get better to take us to the next level, but history tells us to be optimistic here.

Is it really so bad to have a QB who is giving us a few years of above average football before he fully matures? I understand you want the results as soon as possible, so do the rest of us, but he's been good so far, why temper the expectations for him?

I definately wouldn't f with his mechanics. Sure the delivery isn't ideal, but it doesn't make nearly enough of a difference to risk making the guy uncomfortable in the pocket.

Above average football? If you think what JC is playing above average, I'd hate to see what you think average is. Also, like I said before, I just dont think many teams give up 3 draft picks for a QB that 3+ years down the line is playing at best, above average football. If JC had been drafted without giving up the 3 picks it wouldnt be nearly so bad but the Skins gave up 3 picks for a QB that may or may not be starting material. Thats just not acceptable.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by irish

Above average football? If you think what JC is playing above average, I'd hate to see what you think average is. Also, like I said before, I just dont think many teams give up 3 draft picks for a QB that 3+ years down the line is playing at best, above average football. If JC had been drafted without giving up the 3 picks it wouldnt be nearly so bad but the Skins gave up 3 picks for a QB that may or may not be starting material. Thats just not acceptable.

Here's your definition of average (at least in 2007):

Jon Kitna

And while the picks determine if the Redskins got stiffed on the deal or not, it doesn't change how above/below average Campbell's play is.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Here's your definition of average (at least in 2007):

Jon Kitna

And while the picks determine if the Redskins got stiffed on the deal or not, it doesn't change how above/below average Campbell's play is.

Just for reference he thought our D was 'mediocre' last year.

[irish]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Here's your definition of average (at least in 2007):

Jon Kitna

And while the picks determine if the Redskins got stiffed on the deal or not, it doesn't change how above/below average Campbell's play is.

Looking at JC's stats vs Kitna and extrapolating out to account for JC's injury, its obvious that JC would have ended up having about an average season (assuming Kitna is really the average). So all those saying JC was playing above average, the stats dont bear that out.

I think its more than fair to evaluate whether a player is worth having given up 3 draft picks even with the little playing time JC has had. Teams doet give up 3 draft picks for player that might play 3 or 4 years down the line, they give those up for players that will be starting and making an impact by week 10. The fact that JC has sat around for 3 years and played so average when he did finally get the chance to play makes it look even more questionable as to whether he has what it takes. JC may very well end up an average starter for the Skins or some other team but the Skins didnt give up 3 draft picks for an average QB. Those are available aplenty in lower rounds or via free agency.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by irish

Looking at JC's stats vs Kitna and extrapolating out to account for JC's injury, its obvious that JC would have ended up having about an average season (assuming Kitna is really the average). So all those saying JC was playing above average, the stats dont bear that out.

I think its more than fair to evaluate whether a player is worth having given up 3 draft picks even with the little playing time JC has had. Teams doet give up 3 draft picks for player that might play 3 or 4 years down the line, they give those up for players that will be starting and making an impact by week 10. The fact that JC has sat around for 3 years and played so average when he did finally get the chance to play makes it look even more questionable as to whether he has what it takes. JC may very well end up an average starter for the Skins or some other team but the Skins didnt give up 3 draft picks for an average QB. Those are available aplenty in lower rounds or via free agency.

Fair enough, as I said before though, you CAN make the argument that JC's season getting cut 4 games short prevented his numbers from regressing back towards the mean. I mean, that idea makes sense, but it is what it is: a very pessimistic view of a season by a third year QB.

Regarding the picks, I think the nature of the franchise QB makes it so that getting one trumps most value that was given to get him. In the case of the Redskins, the issue is not whether Campbell should have been the 25th pick in the 2005 draft nor does it have much to do with Campbell in particular. For the Redskins, the alternative was drafting Campbell with the 9th overall pick in the draft...or trading the next years first round selection plus a third rounder for the pick that would become Campbell. Because Campbell graded out as a late first, early second guy for most teams, and the Redskins valued him much higher than that, it made sense for the team to use their 2006 1st rounder a year early (would have been the 23rd pick)...which is exactly what they did.

Here's the bigger point. He's was a third year player. By my measures he was above average, and by yours he was average. He's not nearly as good as he will be, which is why I think you are premature in calling this a make or break year for him. Nobody in the world thinks he's done growing, and that's not going to change if we see more of the same from him this year.

[SeanTaylor21]

There is no need to use a high pick on a QB, becuase JC works so rigourisly in the offseason, I really believe this will be his breakout year.

[SeanTaylor21]

Originally Posted by irish

Above average football? If you think what JC is playing above average, I'd hate to see what you think average is. Also, like I said before, I just dont think many teams give up 3 draft picks for a QB that 3+ years down the line is playing at best, above average football. If JC had been drafted without giving up the 3 picks it wouldnt be nearly so bad but the Skins gave up 3 picks for a QB that may or may not be starting material. Thats just not acceptable.

You can't already judge how good or bad JC is, he hasn't even had a chance to start for a full year, if he hadn't gotten hurt these last few games he would have ended the year with like 3500 yards then you wouldn't even have had this arguement, it's not fair to judge someone that has started only 20 games in his entire career.

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by SeanTaylor21

You can't already judge how good or bad JC is, he hasn't even had a chance to start for a full year, if he hadn't gotten hurt these last few games he would have ended the year with like 3500 yards then you wouldn't even have had this arguement, it's not fair to judge someone that has started only 20 games in his entire career.

I believe if Campbell didn't get hurt and played the rest of the year, I think that we don't make the playoffs...is that bad?

I guess I'm saying I don't think he had the ability to take us to the playoffs last year. Now, does that carry over into this year? Who knows but being that it is my opinion that he couldn't do it last year he would have to show marked improvement during this offseason.

Yet again it comes to wait and see, but we can be proactive and wait and see with a home grown QB ready to play if he were to falter.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by irish

Above average football? If you think what JC is playing above average, I'd hate to see what you think average is. Also, like I said before, I just dont think many teams give up 3 draft picks for a QB that 3+ years down the line is playing at best, above average football. If JC had been drafted without giving up the 3 picks it wouldnt be nearly so bad but the Skins gave up 3 picks for a QB that may or may not be starting material. Thats just not acceptable.

Where are you getting 3 picks from? I think GT pointed out the details of the trade. There was not a balance of 3 picks for JC at all. We used our 06 first round pick a year early (thus a zero balance swap of picks) & gave a 3rd round pick as compensation to move up.

If my figures are correct (I'm going from memory), that means the balance of the trade was a 3rd rounder to denver.