JLC: Evaluating Anthony Mix

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Chris Cooley

Glad that one's settled.

Cooley does not play the WR position. We need someone on the outside that is a game breaker. As much we all love Cooley he's not a game breaker. He doesn't take over games. He can't carry an offense if needed. Remember what TO and Plax did against us this year? Remember what Plax did to GB in the playoffs? We need a Wr that is capable of catching 85-100 balls, 1,200 to 1,400 yards and double digit TD's. Outside of Moss' year in 05 we just haven't had anyone.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Cooley does not play the WR position. We need someone on the outside that is a game breaker. As much we all love Cooley he's not a game breaker. He doesn't take over games. He can't carry an offense if needed. Remember what TO and Plax did against us this year? Remember what Plax did to GB in the playoffs? Outside of Moss' year in 05 we just haven't had anyone.

In his career he has taken over plenty of games. Think of San Francisco his rookie year, Dallas in '05, or Carolina in '06. I'm not sure what the definition of a gamebreaker is, but Cooley seems to fit all reasonable definitions.

The reason he can't carry an offense is that he doesn't play QB or RB. No WR draft pick is going to carry an offense.

I do remember what Plax did in the playoffs, but if we're being objective, I would say that over their careers, Santana is a better receiver (and certainly more of a gamebreaker than Plax is). I mean, Burress had been a disappointment until this year, and was best known for being a malcontent. I doubt he will ever have this sort of success again. T.O. is different, but how are we going to acquire the next T.O.? Guys like him don't exactly grow on trees. It's not like we need him anyway, I mean he wasn't very good in Dallas before he got Romo in there to throw to him.

If we got that guy that would be good for 1,200-1,400 yards a season, we'd have fewer balls to be thrown to potentially more explosive players. While we definately HAVE to add some depth, you have to like where we are now with Moss, Randle El, Cooley, and no Brandon Lloyd. Those guys should be able to catch all the balls Campbell is able to get to them.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

In his career he has taken over plenty of games. Think of San Francisco his rookie year, Dallas in '05, or Carolina in '06. I'm not sure what the definition of a gamebreaker is, but Cooley seems to fit all reasonable definitions.

Or how about the Green Bay game last year (9-105-1) or the first Dallas game (8-89-1) or vs. Tampa (6-96-1).

He's had his share of big games for us.

[KB24]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Or how about the Green Bay game last year (9-105-1) or the first Dallas game (8-89-1) or vs. Tampa (6-96-1).

He's had his share of big games for us.

You make great points about Cooley. But, we need another receiving weapon. Teams know that, for the most part, if you take Moss and Cooley away, the offense tends to become stagnant. Also, there were times where because the offensive line was struggling with injuries and personnel issues, Cooley had to stay in to help block (Last season's Green Bay game, for example). You add another consistent receiving threat to compliment Moss, you can exploit mismatches.

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by KB24

Also, there were times where because the offensive line was struggling with injuries and personnel issues, Cooley had to stay in to help block

Exactly....this is why OLine depth may make as much of a positive impact on our passing game as a new WR.

Mix is just another Espy that everyone wants to drool over.

Pick a WR, mid round or trade for a stud...but for heaven's sake...draft some line depth!

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

In his career he has taken over plenty of games. Think of San Francisco his rookie year, Dallas in '05, or Carolina in '06. I'm not sure what the definition of a gamebreaker is, but Cooley seems to fit all reasonable definitions.

The reason he can't carry an offense is that he doesn't play QB or RB. No WR draft pick is going to carry an offense.

I do remember what Plax did in the playoffs, but if we're being objective, I would say that over their careers, Santana is a better receiver (and certainly more of a gamebreaker than Plax is). I mean, Burress had been a disappointment until this year, and was best known for being a malcontent. I doubt he will ever have this sort of success again. T.O. is different, but how are we going to acquire the next T.O.? Guys like him don't exactly grow on trees. It's not like we need him anyway, I mean he wasn't very good in Dallas before he got Romo in there to throw to him.

If we got that guy that would be good for 1,200-1,400 yards a season, we'd have fewer balls to be thrown to potentially more explosive players. While we definately HAVE to add some depth, you have to like where we are now with Moss, Randle El, Cooley, and no Brandon Lloyd. Those guys should be able to catch all the balls Campbell is able to get to them.

The bottom line is we're still not getting enough production and TD's out of the WR position. And not having Lloyd really doesn't make a difference cause he wasn't even on the field to begin with. Moss and ARE are not top tier NFL wr's on a year to year basis and the production backs it up. Are they good enough to win with and be a playoff contender? Yes. But is that the goal? If we're going to be a Super Bowl contending team we need a WR that can make a difference in the red zone. It's probably not going to happen this year because we have too many other needs. I'll throw out more names. CJ, TJ, Roy Williams, Boldin, Fitzgerald, Edwards, Andre Johnson, Colston. There are a few more I could name. If we added someone with this type of potential it would open up the whole offense for everyone.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

The bottom line is we're still not getting enough production and TD's out of the WR position. And not having Lloyd really doesn't make a difference cause he wasn't even on the field to begin with. Moss and ARE are not top tier NFL wr's on a year to year basis and the production backs it up. Are they good enough to win with and be a playoff contender? Yes. But is that the goal? If we're going to be a Super Bowl contending team we need a WR that can make a difference in the red zone. It's probably not going to happen this year because we have too many other needs. I'll throw out more names. CJ, TJ, Roy Williams, Boldin, Fitzgerald, Edwards, Andre Johnson, Colston. There are a few more I could name. If we added someone with this type of potential it would open up the whole offense for everyone.

So you want to trade for one of those wideouts? Fitzgerald re-upped with Arizona and isn't going anywhere. CJ and TJ are both 30+; surely you don't want us to trade a high draft pick for an aging wideout after you blasted the team for trading high draft picks in the past. Edwards and Johnson couldn't be pried away from their teams with a crowbar. Detroit says firmly that it won't trade Roy Williams unless the offer absolutely blows them away.

If you want us to use our 1st rounder on a wideout, what makes you think he'll be a difference maker? About 50% of late first round wideouts are busts and few rookie wideouts have a meaningful impact. The odds of landing an impact rookie wideout with the 21st pick are pretty piss-poor.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

If you want us to use our 1st rounder on a wideout, what makes you think he'll be a difference maker? About 50% of late first round wideouts are busts and few rookie wideouts have a meaningful impact. The odds of landing an impact rookie wideout with the 21st pick are pretty piss-poor.

Well, the chances are just as good if not better than any other spot in the first round. I still recommend against it though, because we're in an era where receivers are universally overvalued, both financially and in the draft.

The best course of action to improve our receivers (which as you have stated, isn't really a priority) is to spend a mid round pick on a guy who we expect to be the third receiver of the future for us, and hope we got a guy who is more than that.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

So you want to trade for one of those wideouts? Fitzgerald re-upped with Arizona and isn't going anywhere. CJ and TJ are both 30+; surely you don't want us to trade a high draft pick for an aging wideout after you blasted the team for trading high draft picks in the past. Edwards and Johnson couldn't be pried away from their teams with a crowbar. Detroit says firmly that it won't trade Roy Williams unless the offer absolutely blows them away.

If you want us to use our 1st rounder on a wideout, what makes you think he'll be a difference maker? About 50% of late first round wideouts are busts and few rookie wideouts have a meaningful impact. The odds of landing an impact rookie wideout with the 21st pick are pretty piss-poor.

I was just using those guys as examples. Some of them are mid-and late round picks so hopefully we can land someone in the 3rd round this year. I think our FO does well drafting guys. I have confidence that we'll find a Marcus Colston or and Anquan Boldin in this years draft class.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I was just using those guys as examples. Some of them are mid-and late round picks so hopefully we can land someone in the 3rd round this year. I think our FO does well drafting guys. I have confidence that we'll find a Marcus Colston or and Anquan Boldin in this years draft class.

I certainly think we are going to draft a new wideout, either in the second or third round. As GMScud pointed out, there should be guys available in the those rounds who will be able to contribute. I just don't want to see us use our #1 pick on a wideout.

[SeanTaylor21]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I certainly think we are going to draft a new wideout, either in the second or third round. As GMScud pointed out, there should be guys available in the those rounds who will be able to contribute. I just don't want to see us use our #1 pick on a wideout.

What I would like to see us doing is to go after a guard, like Brandon Albert in the first, then in the second we take Calais Campbell, and the third we take Jordy Nelson or we could take Jerome Simpson in the fourth.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

The bottom line is we're still not getting enough production and TD's out of the WR position. And not having Lloyd really doesn't make a difference cause he wasn't even on the field to begin with. Moss and ARE are not top tier NFL wr's on a year to year basis and the production backs it up. Are they good enough to win with and be a playoff contender? Yes. But is that the goal? If we're going to be a Super Bowl contending team we need a WR that can make a difference in the red zone. It's probably not going to happen this year because we have too many other needs. I'll throw out more names. CJ, TJ, Roy Williams, Boldin, Fitzgerald, Edwards, Andre Johnson, Colston. There are a few more I could name. If we added someone with this type of potential it would open up the whole offense for everyone.

Maybe a year or two down the road, we will have the money to spend on one in free agency. With regards to this draft, a third rounder or lower will be sufficient.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

The bottom line is we're still not getting enough production and TD's out of the WR position. And not having Lloyd really doesn't make a difference cause he wasn't even on the field to begin with. Moss and ARE are not top tier NFL wr's on a year to year basis and the production backs it up. Are they good enough to win with and be a playoff contender? Yes. But is that the goal? If we're going to be a Super Bowl contending team we need a WR that can make a difference in the red zone. It's probably not going to happen this year because we have too many other needs. I'll throw out more names. CJ, TJ, Roy Williams, Boldin, Fitzgerald, Edwards, Andre Johnson, Colston. There are a few more I could name. If we added someone with this type of potential it would open up the whole offense for everyone.

Being a playoff contender is the realistic goal for this year. There's no reason to go acquire an elite WR before Campbell hits his prime. Some luck can get us deep into the playoffs, but until the QB develops to his potential, we're going to be trailing the elite teams in skill.

The only production you are going to get from your receivers is whatever the Quarterback is able to muster out. That's the flaw in ignoring Cooley in this analysis is that he's the single biggest component of the passing offense, so if you excluded him, the WR production looks shitty. Well duh. If you excluded Steve Smith from the Panthers, they'd be pretty awful too.

I'm sure theres a receiver or two in this draft who will go on to enjoy more success than Moss, but it's too risky to try and find them. Hopefully an opportunity to grab a great player opens up in future years and we jump on it, but Campbell is very capable of playing at a high level with the guys we already have, and that's all SGG and myself are saying here.