John Glenn quote (warning, some content may incite anger)

[JWsleep]

I like John Glenn as well: an American hero.

As for the content of what he (or whomever) said, I think it misses the point. The problem is how badly the Bush team have conducted the war and how badly bungled the pre-war intelligence was, even if you don't accept that it was deliberately fabricated or anything.

We went to Iraq on bad intelligence without an effective plan for the post-invasion situation. Anyone who mentioned this at the time were smashed down by the Cheney-Rumsfeld contingent in the White House. Even if the war was started for acceptable reasons (I was behind it) and even if you think the military is doing it's job well (at the level of junior officer and enlisted men, I think we've been great. Patreus may be good at the general level. Franks' attack plan worked well. But Snachez and Casey were disasters, only there becuase they would follow Rumsfeld's orders), there's still the issue of bad planning, bad decision making, and bad strategy by the Bush team.

I am a fully committed backer of our troops. I just think they've been let down by a bunch of naive, pig-headed politicians who refused to accept anything but their own view. It's "taking a long time" in Iraq becuase we didn't have a plan for post-war Iraq beyond passing the country of to our hand-picked guy Chalabi. When that failed, we were stuck. Disbanding the military and de-bathifying the government didn't help matters. And Abu Graib was a serious mistake that's hurt us in lots of other areas.

If we had good people at the top with a good plan, we wouldn't be in this mess. The troops ARE doing their job, above and beyond often, even with the pathetic lack of armor and so forth at the initial stages of the insurgency.

Rumsfeld and Cheney were cowboys who thought they knew better than everyone else how this would go. They NEVER got along with the military. Rumsfeld wanted to cut the pentagon and make a new sort of Army. Etc, etc. They've done a great disservice to our military, in my opinion, and they've only given aid and comfort to those who think we should never use force at all.

(For more on this, see "Bush's War," a 2 part series on PBS's Frontline. I'd love to find out that the show was inaccurate, but given the range of folks they talk to, I doubt it. It was among the most depressing things I've seen in a while.)

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by JWsleep

(For more on this, see "Bush's War," a 2 part series on PBS's Frontline. I'd love to find out that the show was inaccurate, but given the range of folks they talk to, I doubt it. It was among the most depressing things I've seen in a while.)

I have watched this and can't get over how badly Donald Rumsfeld screwed this country over. It was on Bush's watch and it ultimately lays with him but Rumsfeld was the architect of this disaster.

[JWsleep]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I have watched this and can't get over how badly Donald Rumsfeld screwed this country over. It was on Bush's watch and it ultimately lays with him but Rumsfeld was the architect of this disaster.

Agreed, though I think Cheney was always there to back up Rummy in crucial debates and disagreements. As for Bush, my impression is that he just didn't have the force of will to disagree with these guys and his desire for strong action (not always, or even often) a bad thing, meant that he was most receptive to their views, especially in contrast with Powell's "you break it you buy it coalition approach).

But Rummy screwed up, no doubt. It's amazing how time and time again he's behind the missteps.

I;m told by my buddy at the NY Times that Rummy is one of the most charming and interesting (and funny) guys you can meet. Doesn't make you a good defense secretary, unfortunately.