Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)

[KB24]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'm not sure what you are missing but I said that OL is likely to be a high priority this weekend. I wouldn't be surprised to see them take at least 2 offensive lineman.

Are you suggesting they should use all 9 picks on the OL?? That's slightly absurd.

Absolutely, not. I'm just saying we need to be wiser when it comes to using our picks and I'd rather see us use them on young, hungry players with something to prove than a 30-something receiver who, while elite, may relax once he gets his money. I also think you make this kind of trade if we're a player away from being a contender and we're just not there.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by KB24

Absolutely, not. I'm just saying we need to be wiser when it comes to using our picks and I'd rather see us use them on young, hungry players with something to prove than a 30-something receiver who, while elite, may relax once he gets his money. I also think you make this kind of trade if we're a player away from being a contender and we're just not there.

I get it, you're against Johnson and that's fine and completely understandable. I just didn't understand why you seemed to be trying to insinuate that by trading that pick we wouldn't be able to address the OL.

[KB24]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I get it, you're against Johnson and that's fine and completely understandable. I just didn't understand why you seemed to be trying to insinuate that by trading that pick we wouldn't be able to address the OL.

Not only am I against Johnson, I just look at the big picture. He'd be a GREAT weapon to have on any offense and I don't doubt his talent. But, on a team like the Redskins, which is full of holes, I just don't see how an elite receiver will help us overcome them, should our older offensive line have another rash of injuries with no back-ups on the roster to come in and if our defensive line can't rush the passer consistently. As I mentioned earlier, I'd prefer to see us use this rare bounty of higher picks we have to get some young, hungry guys we can groom and be ready to come in if needed. Keep in mind, there were plenty of occasions where Chris Cooley had to stay in to block because the o-line wasn't getting it done. I'd rather have him in the secondary, creating mismatches and opening things up for the other receivers.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by KB24

Not only am I against Johnson, I just look at the big picture. He'd be a GREAT weapon to have on any offense and I don't doubt his talent. But, on a team like the Redskins, which is full of holes, I just don't see how an elite receiver will help us overcome them, should our older offensive line have another rash of injuries with no back-ups on the roster to come in and if our defensive line can't rush the passer consistently. As I mentioned earlier, I'd prefer to see us use this rare bounty of higher picks we have to get some young, hungry guys we can groom and be ready to come in if needed. Keep in mind, there were plenty of occasions where Chris Cooley had to stay in to block because the o-line wasn't getting it done. I'd rather have him in the secondary, creating mismatches and opening things up for the other receivers.

For anyone keeping score at home. You have now posted 31 messages in this thread, and 8 messages in the "Ocho Stinko" thread. Meaning 31% of your posts to date have been finding ways to say you don't want Chad Johnson on the team. Are there really 39 different ways to say that?

Edit: For the sake of fairness, I have now posted 16 times in this mind-numbing thread, or nearly 2% of my total post count. "Every time I think I'm out they pull me back in ..."

[KB24]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

For anyone keeping score at home. You have now posted 31 messages in this thread, and 8 messages in the "Ocho Stinko" thread. Meaning 31% of your posts to date have been finding ways to say you don't want Chad Johnson on the team. Are there really 39 different ways to say that?

Edit: For the sake of fairness, I have now posted 16 times in this mind-numbing thread, or nearly 2% of my total post count. "Every time I think I'm out they pull me back in ..."

If it bothers you that much, just block out my posts. I will agree to disagree with you.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by KB24

Not only am I against Johnson, I just look at the big picture. He'd be a GREAT weapon to have on any offense and I don't doubt his talent. But, on a team like the Redskins, which is full of holes, I just don't see how an elite receiver will help us overcome them, should our older offensive line have another rash of injuries with no back-ups on the roster to come in and if our defensive line can't rush the passer consistently. As I mentioned earlier, I'd prefer to see us use this rare bounty of higher picks we have to get some young, hungry guys we can groom and be ready to come in if needed. Keep in mind, there were plenty of occasions where Chris Cooley had to stay in to block because the o-line wasn't getting it done. I'd rather have him in the secondary, creating mismatches and opening things up for the other receivers.

Alright we're going in circles again. Let's just say we traded for Johnson. With 8 picks remaining, why could we not still address the lines and bring in hungry young players as you say and in theory have the best of both worlds?? I'm just not understanding your logic.

Acquiring CJ would not mean that the draft is doomed.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Alright we're going in circles again. Let's just say we traded for Johnson. With 8 picks remaining, why could we not still address the lines and bring in hungry young players as you say and in theory have the best of both worlds?? I'm just not understanding your logic.

Acquiring CJ would not mean that the draft is doomed.

Again your are not getting what they are saying....the 1st round pick is the only one that matters....the rest are just camp fodder. LOL.

[KB24]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

because some people are adament that we use the first pick on a O-lineman or a DE/DL. I wonder how they will feel if a WR is picked in the draft. or a Safety.

Some people want youth. So they are against an older WR.

Some people are worried about the chemistry. Like CJ will come in here and this whole team is going to blow up...ie; Arrington. Just like how he blew up the defense and the teams sucked after. Oh wait that didn't happen. Maybe I meant Archelleta.....wait, no he didn't blow up the team either. I know I meant Lloyd because most of the 49er fans said he would come in and destroy what we had and they were glad to get rid of him...wait that didn't happen either.

Sometimes having chemistry means leaving a team that has none and going to a team that has it...ie; Randy Moss, T.O. . What happens if we do get CJ and he's a scoring machine and enables Moss and Randel El or Cooley to score more points simply because teams have to double him? Will we still be on the forget CJ bandwagon?

OL-Bugel is the best a developing OL. He doesn't need the 1st round pick.
DE/DL-At this point any big body will do. Someone to spell our starters.
CB/S-We can find in the 3rd round. Big draft class.
WR-The Skins have not faired well in drafting WR. Hixon is not a developer.

I'm not saying we absolutely, positively MUST draft an offensive lineman with our first-round pick. First, we have greater positions of need than wide receiver. Secondly, this team is full of stars with VERY little in the way of back-ups because we haven't taken the draft seriously enough to develop back-ups in case of emergencies -- back-ups who very well could become starters. This is what made Joe Gibbs' first Redskins teams so great. All we've done since 2000 is field "all-star" teams with LaVar Arrington, Chris Samuels, Clinton Portis and Santana Moss, and going after "sexy" picks (Snyder wanted Ted Ginn, Jr., before Williams talked him off the ledge so we could select LaRon Landry), while not really taking the rest of the draft seriously enough to consider back-ups for the long term. That strategy has netted us a grand total of one playoff win. For the first time in a LONG time, this team has a bounty of draft picks that could be use to get guys who, conceiveably, start immediately or, at the very least, become dependable back-ups -- something this team doesn't have right now.

What happens when the offensive line suffers more injuries? What happens if Andre Carter, again, becomes our only pass-rusher or, God forbid, falls off from last year's pace. What happens if Washington and McIntosh become injured again? What happens if age finally catches up to Springs, Rogers doesn't return healthy and Reed Doughty isn't the man to success Sean Taylor? These are all questions that could be answered with a solid draft performance better than having an elite wide receiver who won't be able to counter all these other deficiencies by himself.

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Again your are not getting what they are saying....the 1st round pick is the only one that matters....the rest are just camp fodder. LOL.

See what I said above. That attitude is what has hurt this franchise more than anything else. ALL of the Giants draft picks played and contributed mightlily throughout the season. When was the last time the Redskins could make that claim? That "camp fodder" could very well represent future starters if not solid back-ups. We need to get off being "star-struck" and really, really get into the business of putting a FULL football team together.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I get it, you're against Johnson and that's fine and completely understandable. I just didn't understand why you seemed to be trying to insinuate that by trading that pick we wouldn't be able to address the OL.

because some people are adament that we use the first pick on a O-lineman or a DE/DL. I wonder how they will feel if a WR is picked in the draft. or a Safety.

Some people want youth. So they are against an older WR.

Some people are worried about the chemistry. Like CJ will come in here and this whole team is going to blow up...ie; Arrington. Just like how he blew up the defense and the teams sucked after. Oh wait that didn't happen. Maybe I meant Archelleta.....wait, no he didn't blow up the team either. I know I meant Lloyd because most of the 49er fans said he would come in and destroy what we had and they were glad to get rid of him...wait that didn't happen either.

Sometimes having chemistry means leaving a team that has none and going to a team that has it...ie; Randy Moss, T.O. . What happens if we do get CJ and he's a scoring machine and enables Moss and Randel El or Cooley to score more points simply because teams have to double him? Will we still be on the forget CJ bandwagon?

OL-Bugel is the best a developing OL. He doesn't need the 1st round pick.
DE/DL-At this point any big body will do. Someone to spell our starters.
CB/S-We can find in the 3rd round. Big draft class.
WR-The Skins have not faired well in drafting WR. Hixon is not a developer.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by KB24

Absolutely, not. I'm just saying we need to be wiser when it comes to using our picks and I'd rather see us use them on young, hungry players with something to prove than a 30-something receiver who, while elite, may relax once he gets his money. I also think you make this kind of trade if we're a player away from being a contender and we're just not there.

I'd rather use the pick on a 30-something WR who has proven himself and is a pro bowl player then to make a guess at who the next T.O., Williams, or CJ is going to be in this yrs draft who ultimatly turns out to be a bust. Imagine spending the money a #21 will get on one of the 3 we let go from last yrs draft. Hell we did just as good if not better with the invites after the draft. Marcus Mason will turn out to be something someday if not with us then with another team and Heyer is better then most of us thought. Let Bugel develope him this year and see how he does. As a matter of fact I believe most of the Redskins histroy with O-lineman is that they were not the top pick. Bugel has a way of developing O-lineman. Take a look at the Hogs. None of them if I recall were 1st round draft picks.

Yes the line protects the QB to give him time to get the ball off, but it's also the QB who has to get the ball off pior to the rush getting to him. Which is why he is supposed to notice the rush and call a play for a check down if needed. I'll also point out that our O-line was doing fine prior to Gibbs picking up Saunders. Then I believe there was a difference in blocking schemes. More so then we all thought. Why don't we run the ball like Denver? because Denver uses smaller lineman who are faster so they use zone blocking. Gibbs always liked the big smash mouth lineman which is usually a little slower, but better for man blocking. Pick your poison. I think if we can get our run blocking scheme back prior to Saunders and utilize Zorn's unknown passing offense (which we all hope is better then Saunders) then we should be alright. We do need back ups to our line now but don't think they are going to draft someone and stick him on the line come Sept. thats not how Bugel has worked. The only reason Heyer was put in was because of injuries. He is younger and probably faster then Janson.

[KB24]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I'd rather use the pick on a 30-something WR who has proven himself and is a pro bowl player then to make a guess at who the next T.O., Williams, or CJ is going to be in this yrs draft who ultimatly turns out to be a bust. Imagine spending the money a #21 will get on one of the 3 we let go from last yrs draft. Hell we did just as good if not better with the invites after the draft. Marcus Mason will turn out to be something someday if not with us then with another team and Heyer is better then most of us thought. Let Bugel develope him this year and see how he does. As a matter of fact I believe most of the Redskins histroy with O-lineman is that they were not the top pick. Bugel has a way of developing O-lineman. Take a look at the Hogs. None of them if I recall were 1st round draft picks.

Yes the line protects the QB to give him time to get the ball off, but it's also the QB who has to get the ball off pior to the rush getting to him. Which is why he is supposed to notice the rush and call a play for a check down if needed. I'll also point out that our O-line was doing fine prior to Gibbs picking up Saunders. Then I believe there was a difference in blocking schemes. More so then we all thought. Why don't we run the ball like Denver? because Denver uses smaller lineman who are faster so they use zone blocking. Gibbs always liked the big smash mouth lineman which is usually a little slower, but better for man blocking. Pick your poison. I think if we can get our run blocking scheme back prior to Saunders and utilize Zorn's unknown passing offense (which we all hope is better then Saunders) then we should be alright. We do need back ups to our line now but don't think they are going to draft someone and stick him on the line come Sept. thats not how Bugel has worked. The only reason Heyer was put in was because of injuries. He is younger and probably faster then Janson.

But, other than Heyer, who else do we have? Also, our line is older than what it was BEFORE Saunders. I don't doubt Bugel's coaching abilities. I just think the bounty of draft picks is an opportunity to find some young talent we just don't have for depth right now.